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Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

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Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#111

Post by lupire »

lostgame wrote: post #96
simonsarris wrote: post #2

That seems OK since it still asks you as it needs them when running an app, and "prunes" permissions away from apps that you do not use often. Lots of apps only need specific permissions if you use specific parts of the app. And apps are much larger (one app does more things) than they were 5-10 years ago. Eg you can use some apps as a camera, but never as a photo editor, and get use out of it by only giving some spe…

Why is this okay? I wouldn’t download , e.g.; a video game that would ask for my contacts or location. Why should I have to download and wait for the app to install before I know what permissions it’s asking for? Furthermore - what’s the possible purpose of removing this information when it was already there?

Here's a reason: if you never download it, you can't give it a 1-star review.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#112

Post by lupire »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #16
simonsarris wrote: post #2

That seems OK since it still asks you as it needs them when running an app, and "prunes" permissions away from apps that you do not use often. Lots of apps only need specific permissions if you use specific parts of the app. And apps are much larger (one app does more things) than they were 5-10 years ago. Eg you can use some apps as a camera, but never as a photo editor, and get use out of it by only giving some spe…

> That seems OK since it still asks you as it needs them when running an app, and "prunes" permissions away from apps that you do not use often. No no no no no, this is a total catastrophe. I can't understand how it got implemented at all. I just missed a birthday notification from my calendar app because Android "helpfully" removed the app's ability to create notifications! After all, I hadn't opened the calendar ap…

Android documentation says that if the permission is auto removed, you'll get a permission prompt next time a notification is sent.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#114

Post by flaviut »

lupire wrote: post #108
uranium wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the permissions I'm really reluctant to grant is "run at startup". As far as I know, that's granted at install time, not prompted for, and there's no way to disallow it. Is there now going to be no way to know if I'm granting that or not?

What's wrong with run at startup?

My calculator doesn't need to run at startup. There's nothing useful it could do in that situation, the only possible reason is to download ads, track me, or just pointlessly waste battery.

Ditto for a wide range of apps. Pretty much everything that isn't a messaging app.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#115

Post by K0SM0S »

givemeethekeys wrote: post #21

I hope Tim Cook succeeds in convincing our government that privacy is important.

Yet most likely, privacy¹ will succeed in convincing our governments² that Tim Musk³ is iMportant™. ;-)

___

¹ The topic, not the actual thing.

² Present & future.

³ Not a typo; an allegory.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#116

Post by andreareina »

hugey010 wrote: post #113

Could this be because every privacy relevant permission, except internet access, now requires a manual approval dialog? Why list every permission when it's only used for specific feature X which is requested upon usage?

Because a lot of these apps claim such and such permission is required and won't run until you grant the permission

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#117

Post by givemeethekeys »

sicp-enjoyer wrote: post #70
givemeethekeys wrote: post #21

I hope Tim Cook succeeds in convincing our government that privacy is important.

Privacy is marketing strategy they chose to differentiate themselves from their competitors who have business models that heavily rely on advertising and surveillance. It's a good thing for consumers that they are interested in it, but cynically, I don't think that interest is because they think its "important" on an ethical level.

Great! Their interests and mine align. That is why I'm a customer.

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#118

Post by givemeethekeys »

sofixa wrote: post #23
givemeethekeys wrote: post #21

I hope Tim Cook succeeds in convincing our government that privacy is important.

If you have to rely on people like Tim Cook ( who is anything but a regular person and could literally afford to have a hand crafted phone and OS build for himself) to convince your government of something for your benefit, something is wrong. And btw, a huge amount of Apple's "privacy" schtick is pure marketing combined with gatekeeping. Oh no, we couldn't allow users to have the choice where to install an app from,…

I don't have time to try to convince Congress about privacy. But Tim does - in fact he recently wrote a letter in hopes that it'll add some weight to the cause. Whats wrong with relying on people who have the means to get shit done if they're clearly capable and willing?

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#119

Post by andrekandre »

beninsydney wrote: post #106

Ugh. I really liked that "nutritional label" because the advance warning tells me upfront if the developer values my private data. I would prefer app stores be similar to health warnings on cigarette packets, because predatory data collection and billing practices are so entrenched.

  > I would prefer app stores be similar to health warnings on cigarette packets, because predatory data collection and billing practices are so entrenched.
yes, exactly

but on the other hand (and just a guess) but likely "conversion rates" were lower with the labels.... so off they go

Re: Tell HN: Google does not list application permissions in the Play Store any more

#120

Post by andrekandre »

daveoc64 wrote: post #98
derevaunseraun wrote: post #65

I see people in the comments trying to justify this change because the apps need to request for permissions, but WHY exactly would google want to get rid of this info? What benefit does it bring to the user, if any? If anything, it harms the user by preventing them from seeing what permissions apps will access in an easy to read format. Why did google even decide to do this in the first place? My best guess is it mak…

I know one long-running complaint about Android's permission system was that when you installed an app you were shown all of the permissions that are declared in the manifest, without any way for the developer to explain why they are used or when they would be applicable. Permissions like READ_PHONE_STATE make it sound like the app wants to access every phone call you make, when all it really wants to do is pause you…

  > Permissions like READ_PHONE_STATE make it sound like the app wants to access every phone call you make, when all it really wants to do is pause your music when you answer a phone call.
true, but that can be solved with a bit more metadata from the developer (usage description) right?
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