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Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

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Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#111

Post by Archelaos »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #98
Archelaos wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, it seems like just knowing some of the dead ends would be a huge step up. This makes me think, how Knowledge in a post-apocalyptic society would really work. Some fundamental and comparatively easy technologies might not need to be rediscovered (directly jump to iron and omit bronze). But more advanced Knowledge needs a lot of special training, dedicated institutions, etc. And even if they had access to tales…

You wouldn't just have access to the knowledge via tales, but the world around you. You want to say the earth is flat? Why did the ancients have globes, then? You want to say man made flight is impossible? Here is an airport with planes. Sure we have never gotten them running but what else could they do except fly? Granted... Never underestimate the willful ignorance of the masses I suppose.

I wanted to emphasis the necessity to re-establish a scientific culture. Knowledge without experience and only from lore would be no real knowledge. Without a collective scientific practice there would be no ground to destinguish between true and false lore. They need to discover science for themselves again. It might be a bit easier and faster though, considering all the hints they would have, as you described it.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#112

Post by bluefirebrand »

VectorLock wrote: post #107
bluefirebrand wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After an apocalypse, if you survive and society has collapsed, resources will be abundant. You will just have to strip materials from cars and buildings instead of digging them out of the ground.

Better hop to it, that steel isn't going to last forever.

I sure hope that the steel in skyscrapers and stuff is going to last a long freaking time though.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#113

Post by throwawayarnty »

gavmor wrote: post #9

If I were to take one book with me "down into the bunker," as Dartnell puts it, I'd hands-down take with me the Bosch Automotive Handbook[0], a phenomenally dense and thorough text covering not just cars, but their constituent parts--and their constituent parts' constituent parts--all the way down to the materials. It has wonderful tables of data on the properties of various materials (from advanced plastics and allo…

Is this handbook still relevant in modern cars? I feel the new cars have so many hidden panels and electronics that you’re not expected to fiddle with the insides.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#115

Post by formerkrogemp »

jerry1979 wrote: post #102
Ishmaeli wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it seems like just knowing some of the dead ends would be a huge step up. Like maybe we don't waste a ton of time and resources trying to turn lead into gold, or teaching left-handed kids to be right-handed, or trying to figure out which ritual to perform to which deity to make the crops grow.

In terms of doing the work of rebuilding civilization, I bet that you have under-rated the role of organized superstition. At the very least, it seems to play the role of superego for the group, and thereby it can prevent incessant bickering and can guide group efforts.

Yes, it helps when explaining rules to persnickety and unrepentant knaves that they should do what you say or they'll face supernatural terror.

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#116

Post by gerdesj »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #112
VectorLock wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better hop to it, that steel isn't going to last forever.

I sure hope that the steel in skyscrapers and stuff is going to last a long freaking time though.

Steel does have a major use in your skyscraper but concrete is perhaps the main player.

Conc is a wonderful and bloody complicated material and so is steel.

Steel is basically iron+(stuff) - Fe 'n' that. If you add small amounts of carbon to iron you get steel and depending on how you do it you transform iron (brittle, hard etc) to a material that is "tough". Tough generally means that it will resist stress/strain more and will fail gradually rather than catastrophically quickly. If you add some other elements, such as chromium you get stainless steel. I can't precis a three year degree into a paragraph but this gets you started!

Conc is a remarkable material, which we think was invented by the Romans. It sets and cures rather than "dries" so will will quite happily work underwater - provided you stop the constituents being carried away by currents. Setting conc involves an exothermic reaction so it heats up - too much in one pour can set itself on fire!

Add steel in the form of "rebar" to conc and you have a material that is nigh on magic in its properties but you do need to know what you are doing. You can simply put C section steel plates in your beams or run FeCr rod through and tension the nuts (lol)

Conc n steel are the modern building blocks of the modern world. I'd like to see a lot more wood ...

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#117

Post by ImprovedSilence »

_jal wrote: post #86
gavmor wrote: post #9

If I were to take one book with me "down into the bunker," as Dartnell puts it, I'd hands-down take with me the Bosch Automotive Handbook[0], a phenomenally dense and thorough text covering not just cars, but their constituent parts--and their constituent parts' constituent parts--all the way down to the materials. It has wonderful tables of data on the properties of various materials (from advanced plastics and allo…

Machinery's Handbook is similar, but sort of a step back on the production chain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machinery%27s_Handbook Edit: And a step further back would be Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy, by Moore. That book is a marvel of applied reason. https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/foundations-mechanical-accura...

Another similar vein, the electrical engineering handbook https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780121709600/the-electri...

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#119

Post by jazzyjackson »

DennisP wrote: post #63
spekcular wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top review on Amazon is devastating: "The author purports to provide a blueprint to restoring a technological economy after a TEOTWAWKI event, but some his listed sources are from the realm of science fiction. Not an encouraging start. He goes on to pretend that he knows more than he actually does. It's as if he skimmed a few sources but only superficially understood them. How else can he suggest that a collapsed…

Sounds like we need a wiki for this stuff. If we managed to get a bunch of engineers contributing, we really would have a guide for rebooting civilization. Maybe include a button to print out the whole thing.

Appropedia is basically this, wiki of "Appropriate Technology", a term for tech that is well suited to the needs and resources of its users

https://www.appropedia.org/Welcome_to_Appropedia

Re: Getting humanity to bounce back faster in a post-apocalyptic world

#120

Post by ntoskrnl »

renewiltord wrote: post #100
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, that static analysis. I, um, was thinking of something else with the same name. Yes, knowing how to build things that don't fall down is pretty fundamental.

Little known fact: Rome collapsed because they did not use a language that was amenable to type-checking.

Thankfully Rome 2.0 didn't make the same mistake. https://rome.tools/
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