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Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

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Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#111
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm lucky enough to live in an English-speaking country, but I'm sure that if I lived in a country that typically sees long delays before localization, I'd find a way to get it early. Localization isn't just bureaucratic nonsense that was conjured up to aggravate gamers in foreign countries - the games actually need to be translated to the local language. As for if you were living in one of those countries as an ex…

the games actually need to be translated to the local language. Uh. No. Also, most games are not translated at all.

When I said that most games are not translated I kind of focused on my country (Sweden). If you are from Germany or France you probably have another view of it.

Point is that localization really isn't the only thing that delays a launch in, for instance, Sweden. I guess we have to wait for it to be localized to other parts of Europe before we get to play it in English (or German, but I'd guess that few Swedes prefer German over English). Which is just stupid.

And if it really is translated to Swedish you'd pick English anyway (exception: if you are a group of friends it can be quite fun to laugh at the poor translation).

In a country where you don't dub movies/TV you get quite good at understanding English at a young age and in such a country I don't really think gamers would prefer a localized version anyway.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#112
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a stack exchange question about retail boxed games with Steam activation: ( http://gaming.stackexchange.com/q/30550/11676 ) >I finished both games and I was thinking of reselling them or giving them to a friend to play. However, these are both Steam activated games that had a required Steam registration code I had to enter -- and validate on Steam -- as part of the installation. Here's the website for CEX - a…

You haven't addressed his issue, at all. The problem with used PC sales is that, particularly when it comes to multiplayer games, there is no way to guarantee that the seller isn't going to hang on to the CD key and keep using it. I've long since moved onto Steam, but I remember very distinctly that before digital distribution, stores outright refused to take used PC games that are primarily multiplayer, and made no…

That page was the first (of many) listed by price, highest first. They have over 3,000 games in stock. People buy them; people sell them.

The people selling them know that they can risk cash on a new game; if it's bad they can sell it secondhand and buy something else. Stopping sales of secondhand games (which is something that some people want to do; and is something that is clearly happening) stiffs the customer. You buy the right to use the content, but you may never ever transfer that right.

This desire to restrict what people can do with content is baffling to most customers yet rife within industry.

When Disney were shown domestic video players they were worried that you could not tell how many people were in the room watching the video; how could you charge people to watch a movie if you didn't know how many people were watching it? See also their attempts to create a "watch once" video.

And all this inconvenience to real customers - people who want to buy games (and who need to sell them second hand to afford it) has zero impact on pirates. I suspect (but have no evidence) that it doesn't send any money to the people creating the games either.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#113

TLDR: "The easiest way to stop piracy is not by putting antipiracy technology to work. It’s by giving those people a service that’s better than what they’re receiving from the pirates," Gabe Newell said.

The obvious question that I don't see anyone asking is what happens when pirates build a more convenient service than Steam? There is no way a legitimate digital distributor can offer more convenience when they are saddled with many business and legal limitations.

PIrates are saddled with legal limitations too. One of the "features" that has allowed torrent sites to be a bit more difficult to challenge is that they're hosting trackers, not actual files. Legal issues affect both sides.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#114

Steam used to be a great way to get games at the same time as the USA for the same price. Now it allows access at the same time but with significantly higher prices in Australia. In this case it is about price. I don't like being ripped off, even if the amount I'm being ripped off is slightly less than if I went into a physical store to buy the game. So far this behavior is limited to AAA titles from publishers other…

I bought a physical copy of The Witcher 2 Premium Edition from play.com and paid €35 I think it was. This included shipping, a physical making of dvd, a physical soundtrack cd, a physical map, a brass coin, physical strategy guide book and more. My point is I got a lot of physical stuff for the price where steam users got digital versions which should have been a lot cheaper to produce. Yet steam charged €45 (since been reduced to €39.99) for the digital version of the premium edition.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#115
I think that people are still willing to pay for PC games as a service. That's what massively multiplayer games are effectively doing. These days, you can often download the game client at the cost of the bandwidth to do it ("free" in the eyes of many), but you pay for access to the servers that are maintained for the players, and you may also pay for expansions.

There are pirate servers, of course, but those suffer from instability, as well as the high probability of disappearing once Big Company X goes after them. That's not a risk that many players want to take, given the time investment that is often made in such games; so they pay to play.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#116
In the olden days, pirating was hard. Hard to get the pirated game, hard to install the crack, hard to get it working again when a new patch came out and often the cracks didn't quite work and you had to find another one in the middle of your playthrough or even restart from the beginning because it broke something in your savegame. Just buying the game meant installing and playing, no hassle.

Today, installing a game you bought is harder than pirating it. You have to activate it, type in a 25 digit code you found on the box (wait, is that a B or a 3? Damnit.). It'll need an internet connection to activate, but the activation server is usually overloaded and doesn't work on launch day. Then it wants to patch itself before letting you play, because the stuff you got on the DVD you bought is actually out of date by the time you get home. You also have to sign up for some stupid web service that you never wanted, and have another login and password that you must not forget (or else you can't play anymore and your savegames are gone with it). Except if it's GFWL (Microsoft's Games for Windows Live). Then you also have to figure out why that damn thing gets stuck in an update loop and makes you log into things just to play an entirely offline, single player game (then you have to install xliveless, which avoids that). Pirating is so much easier. You torrent the thing, unpack it and play, just the way it should be.

I'm glad Gabe Newell gets this, and it's apparent in Valve's Steam (except for some reason they permit GFWL infested games, but at least they warn you about it).

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#117
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is discouraging seeing willful ignorance (aka, tl;dr) voted up on HN. If people can't take the time to read the article, they shouldn't comment. Period.

Who said anything about commenting? I often enjoy a tl;dr because a tl;dr will, with more accuracy than the title, tell me whether the article is worth reading. And yes, I almost always check the comments before reading the article (but I always read the article before commenting).

Oops, my fault.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#118

What people don't realize about DRM, is that it's asymmetric warfare, and the corporation is in the role of the guerrilla! If you have a popular product and everyone in the universe wants to play your game, then your few development groups (formed against bureaucratic friction) are going up against the vast resources and nearly frictionless meritocracy of the internet. Don't take the pirates on head-on! Be sneaky. Fo…

Sounds like a great way to give your game a reputation as a bug-ridden piece of shit. This happened to The Witcher. How about a delivery mechanism that uses technology in a sane manner and doesn't punch paying customers in the face with stupid bullshit?

Sounds like a great way to give your game a reputation as a bug-ridden piece of shit.

Sounds like the same knee-jerk reaction. (Which usually shows you haven't really understood what I'm proposing.) If the consequences are greatly separated in time from detection, and there is strong bias towards false negatives, then the result will be to give the cracked copies a reputation as an incomplete, half-baked piece of crap.

In any case, DRM should never manifest as anything resembling a bug in the game. It should only manifest as a failure of the pirates to do their job and reduced access to online and downloadable content. Remember, guerrilla warfare is about the long term and not the short term. In the short term, there are defeats and retreats for the smaller force, but in the long term, the larger force is persuaded that the effort is no longer worth the reward.

Absolute containment is the essential failed strategy of regular armies taking on the guerrillas. It's also the source of everything you find objectionable about DRM. (Analogy: the armed force that's unpopular with the local population.)

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#119
post #63
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But it should be noted that Steam's pre-release anti-piracy has no yet been broken. So it's not like they don't do DRM... In regards to pre-lease, A bit of a stretch calling what Valve does DRM. The pre-release stuff is straight up encrypted. It's a convenience for the end-user to pre-load the data. Once the game gets released you don't need to contact valve's servers for decryption keys every time you want to play.…

They also just leave key .exe/.dll files out of the downloadable content until release day. With Dead Island, Steam accidentally distributed debug builds on release, leading to some hilarious misuse of cheats.

I'm pretty sure Steam didn't do that; the developer and publisher are responsible for uploading the bundles to Valve for distribution.

Re: Valve: Piracy Is More About Convenience Than Price

#120
post #8

I know that I didn't buy games before Steam, or at least as much as I do now. But price is also a factor. I really have to think about it when a game costs more than $15, but Steam usually has good games on sale anyway. Steam and other digital distributors have made me more of a gamer.

I buy, play, then sell games. Steam does not let me do this; thus those games are more expensive to me. I do not buy Steam games.

I would suggest that you pay attention to the prices on Steam during Summer and holiday sales. You can get best selling, triple-A titles for less than five dollars. I think Mass Effect 2 was down to 3 dollars.

At the sale prices I would think that the convenience of being able to download it from Steam would outweigh not being able to re-sell it for you.

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