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Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

nature.com

111–120 of 170 posts

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#111
post #107
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of total deaths has gone up a little more than the number of known covid deaths. You do the math.

in countries that avoided hugely disruptive lockdowns the excess mortality barely moved at all. Sweden, a noteable example because the media attacked them for a year, was the worst faring non-lockdown country in the world and they still don't even break top 30 countries excess deaths during covid. Not only that, but in 2021 sweden had the lowest excess mortality in the entirety of Europe. So let's not pretend the mat…

Ok. And how many covid deaths did they report? Was it also low, or did they report lots of covid deaths while their overall death rate magically stayed the same? Only the latter fits your "death with covid" scenario.

In the US, it seems rather unlikely that (a) doctors all over the US report a certain number of deaths that they say were caused by covid, and (b) we have about that many excess deaths, BUT (c) the excess deaths were from other causes and just happened to match the number of reported covid deaths.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#112
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the media care if you get a 4th dose? How does it help them?

Pharma profits handsomely whenever government subsidizes more boosters.

There's probably more money to be made by treating lots of Covid patients in the hospital. Drugs, equipment, exotic treatments, doctor bills. Vaccines are less profitable. Get outta here with your conspiracy theories.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#113
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Do you mean co-depending from anonymous internet opinions and advice is a form of mental illness? I agree. Have to see the mistmach though you point out. I just see some scientifically based decissions, recomendations and solutions to really well studied problems, and also see lot of people making noise since the 70s about vax, chemtrails, MMS, Chakras, ivervectine, himalaian salt, bach flowers, ozone, and whatever l…

You are putting way more faith into some "experts" who have a very strong incentive to carry the narrative they are carrying. It isn't really a conspiracy theory when what comes out of their mouth doesn't match the data coming from their own damn public health dashboards. You don't need to be a credentialed "expert" to start asking basic questions about that.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#114
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean a treatment for anxiety and depression or a cause? “Here's to alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.” -Homer Simpson

Alcohol can definitely cause anxiety, and make anxiety worse. I will also suggest alcohol can trigger depression - but that is a claim that is ripe for debate and not well accepted. Alcohol can also "treat" (in the sense of suppressing symptoms) anxiety and depression, thus leading to a downward spiral since it tends to make these things worse, thus you get into the cycle of "Oh I'm feeling anxious, better have a bee…

Alcohol objectively causes physiological CNS depression. Whether or not it necessarily causes the mood of depression or 'major depressive disorder' as diagnosed by clinical psychologists or psychiatrists is another matter.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#115
post #7

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Quoted post unavailable.

Your risk of heart failure is much greater with infection than with vaccination. It turns out that Covid messes up your immune system and will reinfect you multiple times, so there will be no natural herd immunity. And with each infection , your heart failure chances goes up.

> It turns out that Covid messes up your immune system and will reinfect you multiple times, so there will be no natural herd immunity.

I have an incredibly hard time believing this. Either this is true for basically every other virus we've dealt with since time began or covid is so unique and so novel that it somehow managed to do what no virus has done in the millions and billions of years viruses have existed.

Quite frankly, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence no matter what "expert" says it's true.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#116
post #2

There are no conclusions to draw here. The study doesn't "show" anything -- it indicates a need for further research. I'm disappointed that Nature.com is engaging in this kind of sensational journalism. From their own article: > He praises the study, which was difficult to perform because of the amount and quality of data, but adds that it is limited because it does not break the data down by key factors, such as the…

> I'm disappointed that Nature.com is engaging in this kind of sensational journalism.

I am too, but it is not surprising. It's getting them page views. We're also going to be seeing "long covid" articles for years to come as it's going to be a goldmine for research funding.

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have taken both jnj and Moderna. But I have to admit that the grandparent has a point. It feels it’s almost heretical to say, but the vaccines were terribly over-sold. In the beginning they were sold as traditional vaccines - prevention against infection not just serious disease. But very soon we saw “breakthrough infections” (not even written about anymore as they are so common) and the goal posts started being mo…

Covid was a novel virus, which means it was and still is a poorly understood virus. Vaccines came out fast and worked well because we had a new tech platform (mRNA). But it’s starting to look like sarscov2 has immunity evading abilities, which is something that scientists were not able to work out until now. The immunity evading ability should scare everyone at this point, but humans don’t do well with long term bad…

> Covid was a novel virus, which means it was and still is a poorly understood virus.

I'm sorry, but that just isn't true. In what way is covid so new that we need to throw out our entire body of knowledge surrounding viruses and respiratory illnesses?

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#118
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had 2 die in family past year. Both rigorously vaxxed. Both sudden unexpected heart failure.

Correlation is not causation. It's funny that folks point at vaccines while ignoring pre existing conditions, yet with COVID it was the pre existing conditions and not COVID that were killing people.

My grandmother was in rehab recovering from an unrelated surgery and was vaccinated because there was a mandate in her state. She was 90, and suddenly died the next day. Nobody will tell us the cause of death.

But you know. Correlation is not causation! The vaccines are just as safe and effective as promised! Oh, wait, not effective. They're safe though! Trust us, we're the government, we wouldn't lie!

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#119
post #84
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you subtract the number of deaths caused by the vaccine itself?

Then you can look at the excess deaths statistics from the time the pandemic started, but before vaccines became available. It paints a similar picture. A lot more people "than usual" dying in 2020 (before vaccines in US).

And that could have nothing to do at all with the more deadly alpha and delta strains that are now extinct?

Re: Long Covid risk falls only slightly after vaccination, study shows

#120

The problem with a study like this is that they probably aren't doing a good job distinguish true long covid from psychosomatic long covid. And there is a lot of evidence that "long covid" correlates much more highly with pre-existing anxiety levels than disease severity. I think long covid exists I just think there is also a lot of psychosomatic long covid and until we have a good diagnostic criteria to differentiat…

Hypermobility (cartilage dysfunction) and anxiety disorders correlate.

Vitamin D and K interact with cartilage.

Vitamin D deficiency and severity of covid infection correlate. As does obesity. Obesity causes vitamin D deficiency.

Brainfog is a symptom of covid and causes some people to fall down levels of maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

Falling down maslow’s hierarchy of needs causes anxiety.

Anxiety depletes the body of B vitamins. B vitamin deficiencies can impact on glutathione production. Glutathione deficiency can impact immune function.

Spinal alignment/stability helps one maintain focus. Poor spinal alignment causes the brain to burn energy on proprioception. Causing mental fatigue, ie brainfog.

When the body is under stress the cellular membranes become less functional. I think this an immune protective mechanism (speculative). I think you can control cellular permeability with lipid ratio ingestion and calorie management. Cellular permeability affects the mitochondrial energy production and immunity. It makes sense that cellular protection is optimised over energy production when recuperating from a viral illness.

The brain impacts the immune system, there is immune memory stored in the brain.

I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome 4 years ago after contracting a chinese flu.

I am writing this because when people write the word psychosomatic I think the same thing. I just think no-one in medicine has a comprehensive understanding of what psychosomatic is.

I also think long-covid is worse than chronic-fatigue. The base damage is worse, then there is the same viral borne psychosomatic condition layered over the top of it.

What the people safely ensconsed up maslow’s needs hierarchy often fail to understand is the immense stress felt by the people sliding down it.

Incremental motivation and autonomy is hugely important to mental health. The homeless and mentally discounted don’t get much. So there’s this often unarrestable downward spiral.

When you land literally on the floor. The way back up is swimmers stretchers an arm, then a leg, then a leg, then an arm. Build up that spinal strength and propioception with whatever spare energy the body has available to it. It takes at least six months and there are numerous crashes.

You need to eat really simple foods because the brain goes into ptsd mode and hypersensitivities emerge.

You need a really comfortable bed because you are in constant pain and can’t sleep.

You need to know you won’t be homeless because the anxiety will wipe out the b-vitamins faster than the you can ingest them.

The support groups will tell you you have a 5% chance of recovery.

I think it is a psychosomatic illness as well but medication won’t help. I also think some people’s immune systems end up in such a state of depletion that it is just a pure untreatable illness for them.

If you try and communicate any of this in the midst of brain-fog the natural assumption is that you are whinging and crazy. Forgiveness helps, anger management helps.

I think permeability of the membrane inner ear is the underlying causitive mechanism of long-covid chronic fatigue syndrome. You need really good potassium concentration in the inner ear for proprioception to work effectively. Lying down plus the cellular stress permeability response depletes this concentration. Hypermobility exacerbates the problem, the membrane is partially cartilagenous.

This leads to brainfog and fatigue when moving. You have to build yourself up really slowly and there are alot of critics. Outwardly you don’t look that terrible.

I spent time figuring this out to get better. Now I work in telesales because a failure mode of the prefrontal cortex (requiring the most brain energy kind of) is that you tend to talk alot.

I’m getting better, slowly crawling back up Maslow’s hierrarchy. No doctor told me any of this.

I got lucky, didn’t believe my diagnosis initially. (Takes the average person 7 years to be disgnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome). I asked for the most alternative physio at the practice I went to for the constant pain. He wouldn’t discuss the condition at all but he got me doing swimmers stretches and propioception exercises.

I can do sideplanks now. What people don’t understand is that your energy doesn’t collapse immediately. It takes up to 72 hours post exertion for the mitochondria to be overwhelmed and the fatigue and brainfog to kick in.

It is very easy for people to arrive at a place of learned helplessness. It is very easy for family members to question your behaviours from the perspective of mental illness. When you yourself don’t understand why your own energy is collapsing.

You can’t differentiate psycho-somatic from the physical. All that will help it is treatment plans that assume there isn’t a psychological cure in and of itself. Physical therapy is hugely important. More research is required into the base damage of the corona-virus. Then the treatment plan needs to regularly tweaked till it gets to the point of basic health maintenance.

No-one’s getting rich of this so I can’t see it happening soon.

My dream is a better collaborative information system for treating chronic illness. I think people are overly focused on causative mechanisms. Body’s heal themselves given the right conditions.

I wish a company existed where people report their pre-existing conditions, symptoms and medical test and diagnostic result then get given a best-practice treatment plans. The results of the treatment plans are monitored using fitbits. Then incremental adjustments are made to the treatment plan using machine learning to search for symptom dopplegangers and discover what worked and what didn’t for other health dopplegangers.

I don’t know why this doesn’t exist. I think the returns on medical research are getting less and less. The body is multisystemic and everybody is unique. But with 8 billion people there are loads of symptom dopplegangers. We don’t need to know why something works to know that it works. The search for why has diminishing return with each level of complexity. A smaller and smaller percentage of the population can afford the latest medical treatments. Medical research is expensive and wasteful. The top of maslow’s hierarchy is really saying that there is no need for why just being.

I think collaborative sympton doppleganger machine learning optimised treatment plans should be the future of medicine. It is what computer innovation should be about.

There should also be a whole lot more research into vitamin-d vitamin k and cholesterol metabolism. This is an intersection of multi-systemic conditions where membrane permeability, hyper-mobility and anxiety correlate.

You can test for hypermobility by straightening your elbow. If it goes backward even a bit, delve further, you are bendy and may need to manage that bendiness proactively.

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