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Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

healthaffairs.org

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Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#111

Post by scythe »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #100
scythe wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commenters are so weird. 90% of the effort in that comment went into the first paragraph and guess what people responded to? It's gone. It's not worth arguing.

"Commenters are so weird." "It's not worth arguing." In cases where it's not worth arguing, it's usually not worth mounting an ad hominem attack, either.

The poster I responded to asserted some utter nonsense about a serious issue. I provided a source refuting those claims. That is what is worth discussing. The reality is that there isn't enough opioid treatment access. Whether this is true in SF specifically, I didn't find a source confirming or the opposite.

Your claim that tents aren't being removed isn't true either.

https://www.sfexaminer.com/findings/tent-dwellings-are-down-...

It's plausible that enforcement in SF is lighter than what is efficient (prison overcrowding will do that), but the claim that it isn't happening is, again, false.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#112

Post by guerrilla »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #82
guerrilla wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So when you remove all coercive policies whatsoever (because of abstract academic arguments that equivocate all policies short of giving out free drugs and free money and turning a blind eye to dealers), you manifestly end up nurturing a base of hard-core, long-term addicts. Except that's not at all what happened in Portugal (or in other European programs)...?

If you were a junkie looking to earn a quick buck for your next fix and you decided to engage in petty theft how long do you think you'd get away with that kind of behavior in Portugal? Compare to SF. There's your answer. It's not the drugs that's different. It's that one jurisdiction actually gives a crap about making sure the ancillary problems (that are the reason drugs were ever criminalized to begin with) are mi…

> If you were a junkie looking to earn a quick buck for your next fix and you decided to engage in petty theft how long do you think you'd get away with that kind of behavior in Portugal?

No idea what you're trying to imply...

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#113

Post by guerrilla »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #49
guerrilla wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So when you remove all coercive policies whatsoever (because of abstract academic arguments that equivocate all policies short of giving out free drugs and free money and turning a blind eye to dealers), you manifestly end up nurturing a base of hard-core, long-term addicts. Except that's not at all what happened in Portugal (or in other European programs)...?

> Except that's not at all what happened in Portugal (or in other European programs)...? The Portugal narrative hasn't actually been as positive as initially reported by the Cato papers that were based on the first few years following the policy change. More recent data has shown an uptick of lifetime drug use and an increasing trend of drug deaths that doesn't really support the initially successful picture of their…

> narrative

Thing is, it's actually better there, regardless of what papers are written. Everyone's healthier, using less drugs and there's less violence.

Like HIV dropped by 90% among drug users, being the original goal, this is quite a success. Drug related deaths dropped to by 85%.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#114

Post by guerrilla »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #66
guerrilla wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So when you remove all coercive policies whatsoever (because of abstract academic arguments that equivocate all policies short of giving out free drugs and free money and turning a blind eye to dealers), you manifestly end up nurturing a base of hard-core, long-term addicts. Except that's not at all what happened in Portugal (or in other European programs)...?

The "just decriminalize" narrative about Portugal is a lie. https://twitter.com/shellenbergermd/status/14153458369139220... Portugal has humane, coercive policies to get people off drugs, public use is illegal, and people get arrested.

No, it's not "a lie."

> Thing is, it's actually better there, regardless of what papers are written. Everyone's healthier, using less drugs and there's less violence.

> Like HIV dropped by 90% among drug users, being the original goal, this is quite a success. Drug related deaths dropped to by 85%.

>> Portugal has humane, coercive policies to get people off drugs, public use is illegal, and people get arrested.

Okay? Same as mental health most places? It's still decriminalized and mostly treated as a health problem.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#115

Post by humbleguy »

lostmsu wrote: post #92
humbleguy wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very misguided view. Majority of drug users are all around you, regular people who have families and hold jobs - your friends, your relatives, your coworkers. Just like majority of people who drink alcohol aren't alcoholics, majority of drug users aren't addicts.

Somehow I doubt that majority of drug users are from healthy families with kids.

That could be because you probably assume that any drug use leads to addiction and despair. More often than not, despair leads to drug use as means for temporary escape and relief.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#116

Post by rahimnathwani »

scythe wrote: post #111
rahimnathwani wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Commenters are so weird." "It's not worth arguing." In cases where it's not worth arguing, it's usually not worth mounting an ad hominem attack, either.

The poster I responded to asserted some utter nonsense about a serious issue. I provided a source refuting those claims. That is what is worth discussing. The reality is that there isn't enough opioid treatment access. Whether this is true in SF specifically, I didn't find a source confirming or the opposite. Your claim that tents aren't being removed isn't true either. https://www.sfexaminer.com/findings/tent-dwelli…

"The poster I responded to asserted some utter nonsense about a serious issue."

Your comment "commenters are so weird" was a reply to my comment, so presumably was directed at me. I didn't assert "some utter nonsense".

"Your claim that tents aren't being removed isn't true either."

The article you linked says that tents are being removed from the Tenderloin, so that they can be relocated to other areas of the city. So, unless you live in the Tenderloin (a small % of SF), your experience will be just like mine: tents are permanent and are not being removed by the police.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#117

Post by humbleguy »

chasd00 wrote: post #69
bigmattystyles wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At best, they're cowards who don't want to face ads that imply they condone drug use; at worst, they simply refuse to make it safer for anyone with a drug problem because they see them as human detritus.

If an addict tested their drugs and the test came back saying “do not take these” do you think an addict is just going to shrug and toss it in the trash? The test strips really do nothing for addicts. It’s not an easy problem.

Test strips are not just for addicts. Casual users use them as well. Believe it or not some dealers also use them.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#119

Post by lostmsu »

humbleguy wrote: post #115
lostmsu wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow I doubt that majority of drug users are from healthy families with kids.

That could be because you probably assume that any drug use leads to addiction and despair. More often than not, despair leads to drug use as means for temporary escape and relief.

No, I assume most drug use leads to addiction except maybe "try once" cases, which I wouldn't call "use" like I don't call people who tried smoking once in their lifetime "smokers".

Despair is not even in the picture. Too bad you paint it as a viable excuse for making yourself even more stupid than usual.

Re: Why aren't fentanyl test strips more widespread? (2021)

#120

Post by HWR_14 »

grapeskin wrote: post #107
HWR_14 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making it free keeps people from needing to break everyone's windows to get their next fix. It also allows them to use their money on food/rent/etc so they are less likely to wind up homeless. It also means that they congregate in one area, so it's easier to provide resources if they decide to seek help. It also prevents, you know, fentanyl from getting into the supply, having people get more addicted to a stronger d…

There’s also the reality that people who don’t want to go through the shame and trouble of finding a person who could give them a solid hookup and so never try heroin in the first place. Drugs are partly an issue of convenience. An 18-21 year old who isn’t thinking much about the future and figures “why not” is more likely to try something if it’s free and “safe” due to being distributed by someone reputable than the…

Yeah, no one is advocating for a punch bowl of drugs on every streetcorner. Places that give away free drugs limit them to addicts.
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