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Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

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Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#111

Post by Aachen »

lfkdev wrote: post #60
Aachen wrote: post #2

I mean, with that market share, popularity among open source fans... it's an easy group to target and filter oddballs. I'm a Firefox user and I'm used to this treatment at every step of the way, no matter if it's about software, airports, opening a bank account so I can receive a salary, etc. Fundamental things everyone wants to do are being made hard to do the right way. It's always anti privacy, anti self repair, a…

Cool Username

Appreciated :). I see you're from nearby, might you happen to be looking for dev or security work? (For anyone else reading this, remote is also possible. Contact in profile, to not spam the thread.)

I'm not actually from Aachen myself, but nearby in NL and I work in Aachen nowadays and wasn't sure what username to choose.

If someone else would want it, I'm also fine passing it on. Dunno if there are guidelines on that actually but I'd consider an HN username like a domain name: finite, first-come-first-serve in principle, and hoarding is not cool.

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#112

Post by [deleted] »

Aachen wrote: post #2

I mean, with that market share, popularity among open source fans... it's an easy group to target and filter oddballs. I'm a Firefox user and I'm used to this treatment at every step of the way, no matter if it's about software, airports, opening a bank account so I can receive a salary, etc. Fundamental things everyone wants to do are being made hard to do the right way. It's always anti privacy, anti self repair, a…

[deleted]

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#114

Post by prdonahue »

judge2020 wrote: post #110
prdonahue wrote: post #100

(I’m responsible for Cloudflare’s L7 security products) While we can’t comment on the specifics of any customer configuration, we do not block or challenge Firefox by default—either with our Bot Management products or with any other L7 security controls. You can confirm this by signing up a free zone and making a request from Firefox.

To add, without knowing the homepage firewall rule g2 has set up, we won't know exactly what sort of rules is triggering this, although the most likely signals they're using are either bot scores[0] or threat scores[0]. 0: https://developers.cloudflare.com/bots/concepts/bot-score/ 1: https://support.cloudflare.com/hc/en-us/articles/200170056-U...

Appreciate the speculation, but using Firefox does not increase your likelihood of being flagged as a bot nor does it increase your threat score.

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#115

Post by robonerd »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #106
robonerd wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have to trust a whole lot of companies to get onto and use the Internet. Obviously, I wouldn't dream of asserting otherwise. My point is that for the vast majority of the population, a paragraph of technogibberish about cryptography doesn't fundamentally change anything, you're still reliant on trust. To most people, that paragraph is worth about as much as a basic promise. The worth of that statement is derive…

That extends to pointing out that trust is required. When it's the default state of things, what use is pointing it out going to bring? I made an obvious point because it's strange to bring up that something on the internet requires trust. Because of course it does.

> When it's the default state of things, what use is pointing it out going to bring?

I believe that appeals to math can obscure the role of trust. This is demonstrated by the formation of an industry of scammers exploiting the phenomena. Millions of people don't understand cryptocurrencies but buy in anyway, confidence bolstered by their lionization (but not comprehension) of math.

I think it's an illusion worth drawing attention to.

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#116

Post by dingleberry420 »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #74
dingleberry420 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Why jump to attacking them? Occam's razor applies, and there's no proof Cloudflare explicitly is targeting Firefox specifically, unless you somehow have internal access to their source and know there's checks explicitly looking for FF there.

It's pretty simple to check. Go to https://www.g2.com/ in various browsers. That's what I did when I read the article. Here are my results:

Firefox: Javascript challenge

Chromium: No javascript challenge

Edge: No javascript challenge

How could you call this anything but an attack against firefox?

edit: Seems cloudflare has responded[1] and they claim it is a setting set up by the site author. So this attack is done by g2, using cloudflare, then.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31460441

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#117

Post by jtuente »

detritus wrote: post #24
Aachen wrote: post #2

I mean, with that market share, popularity among open source fans... it's an easy group to target and filter oddballs. I'm a Firefox user and I'm used to this treatment at every step of the way, no matter if it's about software, airports, opening a bank account so I can receive a salary, etc. Fundamental things everyone wants to do are being made hard to do the right way. It's always anti privacy, anti self repair, a…

Really? I'm a firefox user too and whilst I occasionally bump into some situation as you describe where I need to hop onto Chrome, I genuinely can't remember the last time this happened. Nope, actually - sometime last year, with some poorly-coded gig ticket purchase thing, if I remember right. I was able to check the code and amend some stupid niggle in WebDev tools to get around it. Not saying I should have to accep…

It's common enough that you recognize that you need to use a chromium browser, that's entirely too common. As a recent example, UPS tracking was/is broken on Firefox.

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#118

Post by [deleted] »

prdonahue wrote: post #100

(I’m responsible for Cloudflare’s L7 security products) While we can’t comment on the specifics of any customer configuration, we do not block or challenge Firefox by default—either with our Bot Management products or with any other L7 security controls. You can confirm this by signing up a free zone and making a request from Firefox.

[deleted]

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#119

Post by dingleberry420 »

robonerd wrote: post #76
dingleberry420 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so you accepted that your website was broken. That can be a valid business decision, but that doesn't not make it broken. Try this analogy: Most people have functional legs, so why install a ramp? 99% of your users can access your property, so who cares, right?

It seems as though capitalism has little room for craftsmanship as a virtue. The only value becomes the dollar value, people see no shame in shoddy workmanship so long as it's profitable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Firefox appears to be flagged as suspicious by Cloudflare

#120

Post by robonerd »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #74
dingleberry420 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Why jump to attacking them? Occam's razor applies, and there's no proof Cloudflare explicitly is targeting Firefox specifically, unless you somehow have internal access to their source and know there's checks explicitly looking for FF there.

I think you mean Hanlon's razor, but that adage is a farce. Every scoundrel in the world knows the trick of pretending it was all a mistake. Skepticism is warranted.
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