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The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

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Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#111

Post by nirav72 »

stefan_ wrote: post #57
georgeg23 wrote: post #7

There were protests at SpaceX when it was revealed the Turksat 5B satellite would command and control these TB2 drones, extending their range from operator line-of-sight to near global. Elon decided to go ahead with the launch. At some point we need to start calling SpaceX a defense company.

Of course SpaceX is a defense company. Starlink is essentially the next GPS in terms of defense importance.

It’s not just StarLink. SpaceX already has a pentagon contract to develop or revive the Prompt Global Strike program. It’s called something else now. Basically,to use SpaceX launch capabilities to a hit a target anywhere on the planet using conventional payloads on short notice. Something that’s currently done using the B-2 bombers and several hours of transit time to target.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#112

Post by nr2x »

jollybean wrote: post #94
openasocket wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should take a look at the switchblade. The switchblade 300 model has the equivalent of a 40mm grenade as a warhead, 2.7kg weight, endurance of 10 minutes and a range of around 10km all puts it well in that lower end range. Couldn't find any pricing data, but I imagine more COTS approaches could come out pretty cheap. I'm actually surprised we've got man-portable loitering munitions like the switchblade in use bef…

I don't even see how the 'switchblade' is useful for anything but special operations strikes on 'key assets' - which is what it was designed for. It doesn't matter if it's 'price effective per kg' - it can't disable a tank, and might not disable a soft target without a direct it. The 900 series is the one that might be quite useful. All of that said, we'll have to see how countermeasures work it may be that they deve…

Oh I dunno, Russian generals in particular may be concerned about the lowly 300 model.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#113

Post by 01100011 »

melling wrote: post #109
01100011 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UkAF literally bombed Snake Island the other day. They definitely have an air force.

Yes, I guess I wasn’t explicit enough and now we’re having a silly discussion about a few dozen Ukrainian planes. The entire point was… anyway… I’ll be more explicit next time so we don’t run into the weeds and waste everyone’s time and get right to the issue

It's the internet. So many people just looking to argue...

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#114

Post by andrewflnr »

wrnr wrote: post #37

Why are these things as effective as they are in the ukrain-russian war? Don't these things show up on radar and therefor vulnerable to conventional anti air defence. Before the start of the war experts where warning that russia could lock down the air space of the whole of europe. These single propeller planes can not be as fast as jet engines and need to be almost on top of their target to drop bombs on them? What…

It seems a big problem, if not the main problem, is crappy training and other prep on the Russian side.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#115

Post by imtringued »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #100
pfbtgom wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure how effective signal jamming would be against COTS quadcopters. It’s relatively easy to provide on-loss-of-signal instructions to the navigation microcontroller. Perhaps it could be a return to set location command or a home in on signal jammer and explode command.

>or a home in on signal jammer and explode command. Congratulations, you just invented the anti-radiation missile. The drone space seems to be speed running decades of SAM and combat aviation tech.

You're saying all we need to defeat these drones is lure them into a jammer and destroy them all at once with conventional air burst munitions? If you want to be fancy use a helicopter to make your air defence solution mobile.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#116

Post by imtringued »

wrnr wrote: post #37

Why are these things as effective as they are in the ukrain-russian war? Don't these things show up on radar and therefor vulnerable to conventional anti air defence. Before the start of the war experts where warning that russia could lock down the air space of the whole of europe. These single propeller planes can not be as fast as jet engines and need to be almost on top of their target to drop bombs on them? What…

These drones dropped like flies in Libya. It is actually very surprising how successful they have been.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#117

Post by CMDBob »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #101
stult wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very solvable problem though. At least for countries other than Russia, which might not be technically nimble enough to adapt mid-conflict and under a strong sanctions regime. S-300s/S-400s/Buks and the somewhat rarer western equivalents like the Patriot system just aren't designed to target something flying that slow with that small of a radar cross section. That doesn't mean the drones aren't reasonably easy…

> We rely on fighters to establish air superiority more than SAMs, while the Russians do the opposite. Worst case scenario, F-15s/16s/22s/35s can use cannons and pilots are more adaptable than radar systems. I also suspect that the F-35's sensors at least are far superior to whatever the Russians are relying on. Or just, ya know, shoot the damn thing. The specs are well within what you can expect to hit with with an…

They really aren't. The TB2 can loiter at 18,000 ft, or about 5.5km. 20mm guns max effective range is about 1,500m. 40mm are better, but still max out at about 7,000m. You're not going to be able to hit it. That assumes you can even see it, which you probably can't.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#118

Post by hmd_imputer »

stefan_ wrote: post #56
throw93232 wrote: post #25

This drones are almost useless against modern army with good anti air defense. Here is Indian article with some technical details. https://www.defenceview.in/why-did-the-turkish-tb2-uav-sudde...

That's funny because there is countless footage of TB2 blowing up the very systems that are meant to defeat them so easily. What's the obsession in India with Ukrainian ops? Is it just a government desperately needing to justify it's wholly Russian-built army?

From what I can see on twitter, there is a deep-rooted turkophobia in India. Add to that Pakistan's interest in the Bayraktar drones, you have a copium induced hatred.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#119

Post by johnthewise »

imtringued wrote: post #116
wrnr wrote: post #37

Why are these things as effective as they are in the ukrain-russian war? Don't these things show up on radar and therefor vulnerable to conventional anti air defence. Before the start of the war experts where warning that russia could lock down the air space of the whole of europe. These single propeller planes can not be as fast as jet engines and need to be almost on top of their target to drop bombs on them? What…

These drones dropped like flies in Libya. It is actually very surprising how successful they have been.

They had some problems initially but completely won the battle after that, especially when they brought in some EW equipment. I have some second hand knowledge that Baykar engineers were very busy constantly tuning the Tb2s.

Re: The Turkish drone that changed the nature of warfare

#120

Post by unmole »

hmd_imputer wrote: post #118
stefan_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's funny because there is countless footage of TB2 blowing up the very systems that are meant to defeat them so easily. What's the obsession in India with Ukrainian ops? Is it just a government desperately needing to justify it's wholly Russian-built army?

From what I can see on twitter, there is a deep-rooted turkophobia in India. Add to that Pakistan's interest in the Bayraktar drones, you have a copium induced hatred.

> deep-rooted turkophobia in India.

Yeah, no. Turkey is too distant to take up any mindspace in India. The two countries don't really have an intersecting or conflicting interests.

Remember, most of what we read on the internet is written by insane people.[1] That's doubly true for Twitter. Any conclusions you draw from them will be hopelessly inaccurate.

1: https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/9rvroo/most...

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