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Serving at the Pleasure of the King

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Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#111

Post by thristian »

lacker wrote: post #69
nirvana wrote: post #64

It strikes me that this is exactly the position every web developer has with google. Google can arbitrarily and capriciously exclude them from their index. When google excludes you from the index, there is no appeal, there is no explanation, and, unlike Apple, google will not publish a set of (reliable) rules. (It gives a lot of advice but is inconsistent.) Also, like Apple, if you are not able to get in the big leag…

You don't need Google indexing you to be successful on the web. Just look at Facebook.

Wasn't there an incident a few months back where the top Google result for "facebook login" temporarily pointed to a non-Facebook site, and suddenly thousands of people were complaining that they couldn't get to Facebook?

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#112

Post by latch »

redthrowaway wrote: post #73
0x12 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is just as evil, just less successful at implementing the evil because Ballmer isn't half as smart as Gates was. Even evil suffers from poor execution.

I dunno. They've (more or less) embraced web standards, made overtures to the OSS community with a bunch of commits to the linux kernel, and have generally been a whole lot less monopolistic. Granted, Ballmer may want to be Gates and lack the ability, but the end result is a far less scary beast.

     generally been a whole lot less monopolistic
What makes you say this is a result of Ballmer vs being told by the government to be less monopolistic?

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#113

Post by earl »

I love that the iphone and ipad are locked down. I gave ipads to family members and I'm finally done with tech support. My parents, girlfriend, and brother were bit by endless amounts of spyware, spam, and trojans because they used windows. I had to reinstall windows on my gf's laptop 3 times because adobe are useless worthless fuckwits who fill flash and pdf with security holes and her computer was repeatedly infected. Every time I went to my parents house I had to clean endless amounts of crap off their computer. My brother's laptop was infected with a virus that tried to get into bank accounts. He owns a pair of pizza stores and does his accounting on his laptop, and he accesses bank accounts with significant funds in them. Using ios fixed all the above.

While in theory it's nice that people can run any application they wish, in practice, it sucks. People end up having to be experts on computer security. As a group of computer professionals we've pounded on this for twenty years and it simply isn't fucking working. If telling people to be careful what programs they run or what websites they visit worked, it would have worked long ago.

Instead, I give them ipads for casual browsing and they're finally secure. My parents don't need my help to get pictures off their camera. There finally is a way for non experts to securely use the internet and applications -- just buy stuff from the app store. It won't spam you, it won't steal information, it won't install spyware, and it will most likely do what it claims to do. If not being able to run arbitrary apps is the price we pay... well, we tried doing it the other way for 20+ years and it didn't work.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#114

Post by cageface »

mekoka wrote: post #86
cageface wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair though, the quality of almost all of the end-user software available via apt-get is far below that of the iOS or Mac app store. Developers and users have voted with their wallets for Apple's model. Ideologically I'd prefer that this were not the case but it's hard to argue with the numbers.

As a Linux end-user installing most of my software through apt-get, I think it is your opinion and there is nothing fair about it. Apple didn't invent this model, they put stricter control, nicely marketed and then monetized on something that's been the primary model of software distribution in Unix for quite a few years now. Regardless of how nice the app store is, the argument remains that the process doesn't need…

I've been as outraged as anyone about Apple's excesses and I don't think it's necessary to be as controlling as they are to facilitate a successful app economy. However, they're currently the only really successful example of this model so the burden of proof is on their critics to show that other approaches can work too.

Focusing on the mechanics of distribution is missing the forest for the trees here. It's about money and what kind of software economy it takes to bring high-quality applications to users. OSS has failed here.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#115

Post by slowpoke »

bostonvaulter2 wrote: post #94
blauwbilgorgel wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Google can arbitrarily and capriciously exclude them from their index. As a web developer on SEO forums, I hear of these cases all the time, but when you analyze these sites, usually 1 of 3 things is happening: - Web developer(s) made a mistake, causing a (search engine) accessibility problem. - The site is in violation of the Google webmaster guidelines. - The site lacks (unique) content, or otherwise doesn't con…

While Google may not currently arbitrarily remove a site/app from its index, it is obvious that they could do that at any time.

Just look at the removable of co.cc a while ago. While they had some reason (malicious subdomains etc), it was still highly arbitrary and kicked out a lot of legit sites too.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#116

Post by slowpoke »

earl wrote: post #113

I love that the iphone and ipad are locked down. I gave ipads to family members and I'm finally done with tech support. My parents, girlfriend, and brother were bit by endless amounts of spyware, spam, and trojans because they used windows. I had to reinstall windows on my gf's laptop 3 times because adobe are useless worthless fuckwits who fill flash and pdf with security holes and her computer was repeatedly infect…

>While in theory it's nice that people can run any application they wish, in practice, it sucks.

While in theory it is nice that people enjoy essential liberties, in practice, they suck.

Franklin sends his regards.

> it won't steal information

So, it's okay if Apple collects your personal data instead of some criminal? Sure is hypocritical.

>well, we tried doing it the other way for 20+ years and it didn't work.

You know why it doesn't work? Because we let people use computers, but don't require them to learn how to use them. I still don't get why people think they are entitled to use a computer. It's the same as demanding to drive a car without knowing how to operate it, in addition to having no clue about traffic rules. We're not attacking the root of the problem, we're simply slapping the symptoms around.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#117

Post by earl »

slowpoke wrote: post #116
earl wrote: post #113

I love that the iphone and ipad are locked down. I gave ipads to family members and I'm finally done with tech support. My parents, girlfriend, and brother were bit by endless amounts of spyware, spam, and trojans because they used windows. I had to reinstall windows on my gf's laptop 3 times because adobe are useless worthless fuckwits who fill flash and pdf with security holes and her computer was repeatedly infect…

>While in theory it's nice that people can run any application they wish, in practice, it sucks. While in theory it is nice that people enjoy essential liberties, in practice, they suck. Franklin sends his regards. > it won't steal information So, it's okay if Apple collects your personal data instead of some criminal? Sure is hypocritical. >well, we tried doing it the other way for 20+ years and it didn't work. You…

> So, it's okay if Apple collects your personal data instead of some criminal? Sure is hypocritical.

Criminals: steal tens of thousands of dollars from your bank account. And you may well be stuck with the losses. Apple: knows a bit of your personal information. So yeah, those are comparable.

And computer training? Another stupid idea that demonstrably doesn't solve the problem. People have been trying that since at least the windows 95 era. Strangely, there are still bot nets, viruses, malware, spyware, electronic theft, etc. But I'm sure it's going to really work any day now.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#118

Post by vacri »

dsr_ wrote: post #108
vacri wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is she unhappy that a retailer gets their cut for supplying the MITM service? I don't like Apple philosophy in the slightest and don't own any apple gear (old ipods excepted), so I'm not a fan of theirs in the slightest. But this 30% thing is just a non-issue. They're a retailer providing content. 30% is a boringly normal number for the retailers cut. If amazon wanted to share their profits with the retailer (lik…

Why is she unhappy? At a basic level, it's because her mental model of How Things Work broke. She thinks that it's reasonable that using the Amazon Kindle application on any platform she ought to be able to buy books from Amazon as part of that app. After all, she's signed in, Amazon knows who she is, at most they ought to ask for a password confirmation to let her spend her money. And that doesn't work. So she was u…

Does she also have a problem that Amazon takes the lions share of the remaining money, instead of it going to the authors? Amazon is just another MITM - a facilitator of getting product to consumer.

Same argument with the kindle, right? "Amazon got their benefit when they sold her a device"?

Perhaps she doesn't realise that the App Store is the same kind of service that Amazon provides - after all, the Kindle is also locked down. You have to do Frowned-On things to read your other ebooks on it.

Perhaps you should inform her of this, and watch her mental model break yet again.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#119

Post by pm »

redthrowaway wrote: post #58
latch wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your parent's point is that the reason Microsoft doesn't do this as much now isn't because they are more benevolent, it's because they were so over the top tyrannical that they've been forced to stop.

Not really. Microsoft really is far less evil under Ballmer than Gates. It's also less effective, less farsighted, and slower, but it is less evil.

It's just more incompetent. That's what happens when evil genius moves aside, and the henchmen take over.

Re: Serving at the Pleasure of the King

#120

Post by praptak »

It is just the most recent (I wanted to write last, but I'm sure it is not the last) of many similar stories and articles, which can be summed up as "Do not be a sharecropper." Some previous ones:

http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePla... http://weblog.raganwald.com/2004/11/sharecropping-in-orchard...

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