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UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

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Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#111

Post by mrlonglong »

mike_hearn wrote: post #94
sofixa wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU wants the UK to be subservient to the Commission for ideological, political and economic reasons. The UK doesn't want to be back in that situation. What a load of Brexiteer crap. The UK was never subservient, they were among the top decision makers and powers in the EU. Brexit UK wants to have its cake and eat it too and is simply impossible. You can't be independent from the EU on trade and power simply bec…

The UK had to implement EU decisions and laws, including those the government and voters directly disagreed with. That is what subservient means, in this context. The fish debacle ( the UK refusing to license EU-based ships). There are lots of licensed EU fishing vessels. Note that Jersey isn't actually a part of the UK, technically it's a Crown Dependency. Anyway. The full story of the dispute is much more complicat…

Boring codswallop.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#112

Post by petr_tik »

_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #6

This sounds like brexiteer project. Doubt this will actually happen. 3800 km of undersea HVDC cable just to circumvent the EU. 3800 km is the distance from St.Petersburg to Marocco.

> This sounds like brexiteer project.

Given that the UK has left the EU, couldn't you call every trade deal or cultural exchange with a non-EU country a Brexit project?

Even if it is, what is wrong with that? The people of Britain voted for Brexit and now need their elected officials to deliver, which motivates projects like these

Edit: to clarify, i live in London and i didn't vote for Brexit. Regardless of the outcome, I consider it a national security issue and a productivity boost to have cheap energy collected from a diverse set of sources from solar plants abroad to domestic nuclear energy plants and off-shore wind turbines.

If you live in Britain, would you really prefer Britain stop investing in projects like these, just because there was an election result you disagreed with?

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#113

Post by axg11 »

sudosysgen wrote: post #101
Grimburger wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> handing your life support to a distant and culturally different country As horrible as it sounds, Morocco isn't a nuclear power and would be crushed in an afternoon by UK armed forces while western media across the planet creates a hundred different justifications and the world's diplomats send their congratulations for neutralising the energy terrorists because they couldn't care less what happens to them. This is…

That is not true. The UK doesn't have the force projection capability to do that to Morocco, which is a US ally. The UK would get hammered in an attempt to terrorise Morocco. The only remotely conceivable way that the UK would have of projecting significant power onto the Moroccan mainland is by trying to foment a civil war. Otherwise they would not get anything out of it. If the US even allowed the UK to do such a f…

This is false. Not that it matters to the wider argument but UK has plenty of power projection capabilities to mount an offensive in Morocco.

Morocco is even within reasonable distance for the UK to run sorties from UK air bases, let alone including aircraft carriers, cruise missile attacks from submarines, etc.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#114

Post by justincormack »

masklinn wrote: post #54
KarlKemp wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’d be stupid to run a cable straight through the EU, as well, yes. You want to be part of a large and diverse grid. Then, you add or reinforce long-distance connections based on observed patterns. So the UK should get over itself, connect to larger grid that’s already operating on three sides. The same is probably true for Morocco, and at some point these photovoltaic-in-the-desert ideas will become economical, alt…

> It’d be stupid to run a cable straight through the EU, as well, yes. Politically, maybe. Technically and financially, not at all. There’s 3GW of interconnection between france and the UK with a 4th under construction, and france is a broker / hub between germany, italy, spain, and the UK (as well as its own production).

France won’t let solar from Spain into their grid as it undermines their nuclear financing. So from Morocco is off the table. A Spain UK connection was planned and seems sensible.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#115

Post by gizajob »

jodrellblank wrote: post #75
giorgioz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it does, I'm not sure why they can't just put wind turbines in the UK. I'm sure there is plenty of wind there too. Also it would seem the south of France or Portugal would be much closer for the solar part.

Right now (Sunday afternoon) the UK is getting about 1/3rd of the nations power from wind turbines, more than any other single source: https://www.energydashboard.co.uk/live https://winderful.uk/

Great stats, and great username. Hope you're near to the great telescope. Spent some joyous school trips there as a child.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#116

Post by credit_guy »

I find liquefied Hydrogen to make more sense. In case of conflict (like now), undersea cables can be sabotaged with plausible deniability. The Royal Navy can protect a tanker en route from Morocco to UK, or a convoy of such tankers, there were two times in the not so distant history when it had to do just that. But how do you protect a continuous line of a few thousand km?

Separately, if at some random point in the future the relations between the UK and Morocco go south, it’s much easier to change suppliers if you use tankers. The EU is investing massively in Hydrogen, so the Worldwide Hydrogen market will be quite mature in 10 to 20 years.

Even from Morocco’s point of view, the same calculus applies. If the UK sanctions Morocco, and refuses to take delivery of electricity, how do you find an alternate buyer if the transmission line is in place? With Hydrogen tankers, you simply start selling to China or someone else, or you put the Hydrogen in some medium-long term storage. This gives you more leeway to negotiate whatever diplomatic situation you found yourself in.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#117

Post by justincormack »

Kognito wrote: post #37
giorgioz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it does, I'm not sure why they can't just put wind turbines in the UK. I'm sure there is plenty of wind there too. Also it would seem the south of France or Portugal would be much closer for the solar part.

For context the UK is already massively invested in wind turbines, with a lot more investment going into off-shore farms. On a good windy day, current capacity might satisfy ~40% of grid demand and this will only increase. However, the wind doesn't always blow and a cache of coal-fired power stations are kept on hand to quickly be able to plug the gap. If this is economical enough - I'd be all for it rather than payi…

Gas fired not coal. Its faster to spin up.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#118

Post by arlort »

tinco wrote: post #88
sofixa wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU wants the UK to be subservient to the Commission for ideological, political and economic reasons. The UK doesn't want to be back in that situation. What a load of Brexiteer crap. The UK was never subservient, they were among the top decision makers and powers in the EU. Brexit UK wants to have its cake and eat it too and is simply impossible. You can't be independent from the EU on trade and power simply bec…

Stop being so adverserial. Parent hasn't stated any pro-brexit sentiment so just assume they're arguing in good faith. The whole idea of the EU is that all nations in it are subservient to the commission. We like it that way because that makes the collaboration more rational and it makes the rising tide lift all the boats. Wether you agree with it or not, the idea of the Brexit is that the UK can be strong without th…

> The whole idea of the EU is that all nations in it are subservient to the commission

It really really isn't though

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#119

Post by recuter »

Grimburger wrote: post #95
jodrellblank wrote: post #62

UK is currently generating 30GW from all sources[1], so 10GW is a third of the national power requirement. Germany has just had a hard lesson in having significant energy dependency on Russia. Morocco is UK's 61st largest trading partner[2]. Morocco isn't Russia, but handing your life support to a distant and culturally different country in a less stable world region with limited history of partnership (European colo…

> handing your life support to a distant and culturally different country As horrible as it sounds, Morocco isn't a nuclear power and would be crushed in an afternoon by UK armed forces while western media across the planet creates a hundred different justifications and the world's diplomats send their congratulations for neutralising the energy terrorists because they couldn't care less what happens to them. This is…

Morocco is surprisingly well armed due to the ongoing conflict with their nemesis Algeria.

> Morocco isn't a nuclear power and would be crushed in an afternoon by UK

> This is a completely different situation wrt to Germany Russia

The irony is palpable. Yes, the UK would probably get a "win" but not in an afternoon and this energy project would be destroyed - rather pointless.

You could just have coal reserves on standby and contingency energy deals with France.

Re: UK-Morocco 10GW Renewable Electricity Interconnector Planned

#120

Post by gghhzzgghhzz »

mike_hearn wrote: post #94
sofixa wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU wants the UK to be subservient to the Commission for ideological, political and economic reasons. The UK doesn't want to be back in that situation. What a load of Brexiteer crap. The UK was never subservient, they were among the top decision makers and powers in the EU. Brexit UK wants to have its cake and eat it too and is simply impossible. You can't be independent from the EU on trade and power simply bec…

The UK had to implement EU decisions and laws, including those the government and voters directly disagreed with. That is what subservient means, in this context. The fish debacle ( the UK refusing to license EU-based ships). There are lots of licensed EU fishing vessels. Note that Jersey isn't actually a part of the UK, technically it's a Crown Dependency. Anyway. The full story of the dispute is much more complicat…

If you were one of the big 3 then you pretty much get to decide what laws / fines apply and what don't. This was often used to the advantage of the British governments to claim that they were being forced into doing something that they actually wanted to do, but would have an issue passing domestically.

Fishing 'debacle' was because the UK governments have no interest in fishing nor in the far wider issue of the sustainability and viability of costal communities. They were happy to give away fishing rights because that's what the needs of the markets demand. They only become interested in fishermen/women when they think there are some votes in it. Same for Macron.

It's all extremely cynical. And I say this as someone who voted for Brexit, and would do so again.

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