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Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

theverge.com

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Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#111

Post by Broken_Hippo »

dehrmann wrote: post #99
dontblink wrote: post #71

Regarding the rules surrounding fake information, I wonder why the be EU hasn't taken a similar stance against Fox News equivalencies?

Rules around fake information scare me because they're a limit on speech, and as Russia has recently shown, fake information is anything a dictator doesn't approve of.

Russia has recently shown, fake information is anything a dictator doesn't approve of.

This isn't an issue of "limits on speech", but rather, another reminder that one shouldn't enable folks to become dictators. Not having some reasonable limits on actual misinformation makes us all less free, however, because we cannot put our trust in some organizations.

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#112

Post by nottorp »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #108
nottorp wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am very tired of the cookie/tracking popups on many websites that don't have option to "reject all" but just "accept all" and "customise". Main example being Google Search. And The Verge on this very article :)

The people writing the articles are different from the MBAs forcing the financial and technological decisions. “Integrity” has different meanings for each group. For the latter, the meaning is likely closer to “bring in enough revenue to keep the publication running.” Applying dark patterns does not conflict with this.

Well it's fine with me. I only open Verge links when they're on HN and the title feels interesting. Which is pretty rare.

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#113

Post by barrucadu »

anothernewdude wrote: post #33
otherotherchris wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Platforms are responsible for everything shown to a user inside the EU. I suspect that Google and Facebook will not offer country specific blocklists like they do for Nazi content in Germany. If Hungary bans LGBTQIA content, it'll disappear in France. Europe can then have an argument about how they "really really not really" believe in free speech.

If they do business in the EU. Otherwise this is without teeth entirely.

I mean, yes? That seems obvious?

EU law applies to companies which operate in the EU.

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#114

Post by wrboyce »

tjoff wrote: post #107
wrboyce wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah you’re right, there was no need for the last bit. I’m still struggling to see the relevance though, trying to get me to buy things is very different from trying to get me to use a feature you profit from (in my opinion). You also have to bare in mind that HN represents the more technical users, plenty of people probably do need the popups to discover these features. Saying that, a “no thanks, don’t remind me aga…

Feature you profit from? You feel you profit from facebook tracking as well? Regardless, these dark patterns are truly disgusting and how some can defend them so mindlessly just because they apparently found a use for a product is quite disturbing.

“You” in that context was the entity pushing the feature. I’m not sure what point you think you’re making about Facebook tracking tbh, but I don’t use Facebook so you’re asking the wrong person; to claim I am mindlessly defending dark patterns is nonsense.

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#115

Post by wetpaws »

jasfi wrote: post #6
otherotherchris wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Here's 100PiB of unlabeled neural net weights. Knock yourselves out."

They want to know how the algorithms work, not the data itself.

Data is already an algorithm

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#116

Post by dehrmann »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #111
dehrmann wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rules around fake information scare me because they're a limit on speech, and as Russia has recently shown, fake information is anything a dictator doesn't approve of.

Russia has recently shown, fake information is anything a dictator doesn't approve of. This isn't an issue of "limits on speech", but rather, another reminder that one shouldn't enable folks to become dictators. Not having some reasonable limits on actual misinformation makes us all less free, however, because we cannot put our trust in some organizations.

> Not having some reasonable limits on actual misinformation makes us all less free

This is a step towards "freedom is slavery."

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#117

Post by vmception »

jasfi wrote: post #5

If you read the article they're asking for more than explaining algorithms. Overall they want the the tech providers to be responsible. Explaining algorithms could, in theory, give away a competitive advantage. However fairness to users seems to be a priority in this decision.

Nevada Gaming Control Board requires source code of all the casino games

Easy to see this concept expanding

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#118

Post by kazamaloo »

FpUser wrote: post #77

I am curious how would they "explain" AI algorithms where it is impossible to explain how / why the decision has been made.

Not that the algorithms are impossible to explain but in some cases the real explanations might require explanations, too. But I think companies will probably get away with hand-wavy explanations like you get this recommendation because you watched this movie neglecting all the sourcing/ranking/filtering workflows.

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#119

Post by vampiretooth1 »

What actually constitutes a full explanation of the algorithm? Article doesn't get into this enough, it mentions a high level overview is required but not much else. I can imagine that it's not going to require sharing the codebase or IP, of course.

Re: Google, Meta, others will have to explain algorithms under new EU legislation

#120

Post by postsantum »

Irishsteve wrote: post #8

The new regulation requires a hand-wavey style explanation i.e build a retrieval / ranking / matching algorithm that learns from customer clicks and considers blah blah. There will be no explanation of the actual algorithm.

No explanation - no market. If you don't like it, you can run your business in another contract jurisdiction. I hope these companies will taste their own medicine, we desperately need competition
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