http://futureoftheinternet.org offers an expansive look at the problems hinted in the parent link.
http://futureoftheinternet.org/glossary gives the key concepts around which great fights will ensue.
Why I’m scared of the post-PC era.
111–119 of 119 posts
Re: Why I’m scared of the post-PC era.
#112In the presence of each and every person living in an industrialized society are multiple devices running embedded software that is difficult to modify. Those devices are programmed using more flexible systems which to this very second are programmable any way you like. Where is the outrage over the hacker unfriendliness of my refrigerator? The iPad, iPhone, Android, and comparable devices are a hybrid of PC-like and…
Personally I'd like it if I could hack my fridge. And my thermostat. And my dishwasher. But those actually aren't as important as a computer because I don't use them to make things. I don't dismiss the power of giving access to information consumption devices to the masses. But I would prefer if we could put the means of production into their hands as well. So I agree to some degree with the author. As for censorship…
> Personally I'd like it if I could hack ... my thermostat.
http://www.radiothermostat.com/
http://central.isaroach.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Controllable with JSON. Expensive, but so awesome.
Re: Why I’m scared of the post-PC era.
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you explain how open vs closed systems relate to user interface or experience issues? Those are orthogonal to each other, Apple made two choices here, not one. I understand the reasons for the move towards closed systems. A combination of media provider demands, funding coming from advertising and user tracking and the standard walled garden land rush when a new market opens up. > This argument ... is tired ... p…
> Can you explain how open vs closed systems relate to user interface or experience issues? Those are orthogonal to each other You can have a better UI and experience in a closed system. Multiple reasons: 1) A closed system is more tightly controlled. The user cannot fuck every aspect of it, and so he wont. You cannot assume the average users knows what he is doing or what he is installing on his device. Historically…
Both of those "advantages" of closed systems are best solved with reasonable defaults.
Re: Why I’m scared of the post-PC era.
#114People are afraid of technology because of the crap tech from the past 20 years. What do you think happens when those people stop being afraid? Suddenly software development feels accessible to a bunch more people. I'd argue that people won't stop wanting to tinker, that in fact more people will start to because they no longer think it's impossible.
My high school (1997-2001) reinforced this. They suspended kids from school for tinkering. And by tinkering, I mean "bringing up a DOS prompt instead of using the pre-canned IBM ICLAS menu system".
Re: Why I’m scared of the post-PC era.
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Can you explain how open vs closed systems relate to user interface or experience issues? Those are orthogonal to each other You can have a better UI and experience in a closed system. Multiple reasons: 1) A closed system is more tightly controlled. The user cannot fuck every aspect of it, and so he wont. You cannot assume the average users knows what he is doing or what he is installing on his device. Historically…
You're conflating open vs closed, customizable vs non-customizable and (strangely) open source development. open/closed and customizability are at least commonly related in practice so I can see the train of thought there. Mentioning design by committee is just weird though, it's only related in that Apple has famously not done this as well as been closed and non-customizable. I can only assume that you own a car you…
>You're conflating open vs closed, customizable vs non-customizable and (strangely) open source development.
It's not me thats conflating those, it's what the history of FOSS development has done in practice so far. Theoretically, yes, those things could be separate. But only if in said theory you abstract away human nature, group dynamics and such. For example, if something is developed as FOSS the people involved tend to make it customizable to the extreme.
>I can only assume that you own a car you have modified with aftermarket parts all to hell and "fuck[ed] every aspect of" because it was possible and really wish someone had made it tinker proof to save you from yourself.
When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.
> Otherwise you sound like some arrogant technically literate person who feels that he or she knows what less technically competent people should be allowed to do with their own possessions because it's for their own good.
Yeah, the kind of arrogant technically literate person who has seen how less technically competent people use their products and what they ask of them. Ever noticed how the only people who give a flying duck about openness and modifiability in regards to iOS are a tiny minority of tinkerers, hobbyists, foss zealots and such? Oh, and press pundits of the calibre of Dvorak, Cringely etc looking for a headline.
Re: Why I’m scared of the post-PC era.
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand what you're driving at. Software represents only a fraction of "everything that's on the Internet", creators of software only a fraction of creators in general, and creators in general being only a fraction of "the masses".
That there has been so much software written, and content created with that software, and support structures to supply that content to you (like networking or ecommerce) indicates that folks have to be able to innovate - the greater the mass of people that can tinker, the greater the mass of creators you get. There was a much higher ratio of creators to users in the computer world in the 60s. But there wasn't the she…
Writing software is not the only kind of creation.
Re: Why I’m scared of the post-PC era.
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
That there has been so much software written, and content created with that software, and support structures to supply that content to you (like networking or ecommerce) indicates that folks have to be able to innovate - the greater the mass of people that can tinker, the greater the mass of creators you get. There was a much higher ratio of creators to users in the computer world in the 60s. But there wasn't the she…
Writing software is not the only kind of creation.
Yes, and? Pretty much all the 'non-software' stuff you create with some form of electronic device requires software to make it. If there are fewer software writers, there are fewer kinds of software, and less non-software-cration stuff you can do with it.
Re: Why I’m scared of the post-PC era.
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're conflating open vs closed, customizable vs non-customizable and (strangely) open source development. open/closed and customizability are at least commonly related in practice so I can see the train of thought there. Mentioning design by committee is just weird though, it's only related in that Apple has famously not done this as well as been closed and non-customizable. I can only assume that you own a car you…
>You're conflating open vs closed, customizable vs non-customizable and (strangely) open source development. It's not me thats conflating those, it's what the history of FOSS development has done in practice so far. Theoretically, yes, those things could be separate. But only if in said theory you abstract away human nature, group dynamics and such. For example, if something is developed as FOSS the people involved t…
How did FOSS come into this? You're all over the map here.
To remind you, this was a conversation about products that allow kids to learn through tinkering vs those that are completely locked down.
I don't particularily care to debate you on random semi-related topics especially when you aren't really debating with shit like this:
> When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.
Ok, since my little rhetorical device gave you a smart ass way to evade the question let me put it another way:
You say "A closed system is more tightly controlled. The user cannot fuck every aspect of it, and so he wont. You cannot assume the average users knows what he is doing or what he is installing on his device. Historically he has been shown unable to do so."
Why does this problem not appear in any other industry? Normal people seem to do just fine with their cars, clothes, power tools, etc. All things that it is possible to tinker with and break doing so. People who take the risk and have some expertise do and those that don't just enjoy the purchase and leave that stuff to the experts. Historically they have been show to be able to do so.
I think we agree that forcing users to tweak all sorts of configurations either during setup or during normal use isn't the right way to design software. That's not related to whether it's possible to modify things if you want to.
Do you honestly not understand that this is a narrower subject than the Apple way (closed, novice centric simple UI, proprietary) vs. the Linux Way (open, expert centric UI, free)?
My points where only ever about open vs. closed, as was the article we commenting on.
Re: Why I’m scared of the post-PC era.
#119This happened in cars ages ago. I'm the only one of my friends who knows how to debug a carburetor. hell, I'm the only one who cares. and thats fine. not everybody cares. some people just want to drive.
The guy who wrote Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance seem to think it is Not Fine.
progress requires some kind of encapsulation. I dont need to make fire to boil eggs… or even understand how the power gets to my house.