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‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty

theguardian.com

111–120 of 139 posts

Re: ‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty

#111

Where do these daily sodium recommendations come from? If Japanese people on average are eating two times the recommended daily amount and are not seeing adverse effects then is the recommendation more of you don’t need to eat so much sodium?

How much sodium you need is also heavily dependant on your physical activity. A more active populous needs more salt than a sedentary one

Re: ‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty

#112
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to hear she's doing fine for her age. Surely we understand there are statistical variations, and she's on the healthier side luckily. But fried & smoked diets have very strong correlation to cancers in general, and these are validated by studies over last 2 decades. If I remember correctly, after prostrate, stomach cancer is the next common carcinoma in East Asia. (I could be a bit wrong on relative orders as th…

You call it "luck", but that's what I meant by people really don't understand the risks, I don't think it's luck at all - Doctors make lots of recommendations based on broad trends, but they don't really understand an individual person's risk.

I think it boils down entirely to pure individual chance. Someone may be a chain smoker and die naturally. That does not obviate the medical fact that smoking increases the chances of lung cancer. It is like rolling a die - you can estimate probabilities but that your dice will land two 6's are purely based on the event. Yet, done over a couple of thousand trials we definitely know it happens 1 per 36 tries on average.

In cases such as your MIL, maybe she's less prone to gastric inflammation. That simple fact reduces her chances of other serious ailments. Its a biological chain reaction after all. Cancer is strongly linked to chronic inflammation.

Re: ‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty

#113

This is probably less invention, more marketing. Manipulating ions requires a lot of current. Drop an AA battery to a soup and nothing remarkable happens quickly, but lick the same battery and you will definitely feel it immediately. If you do it while something sour/salty is in your mouth, your tongue may get confused, since it's only prepared to detect 5 flavors plus hot and cold, and it may simply assigns the extr…

Only one chopstick appears to have an electrode, while the wristband looks like a ground contact. This device looks like it makes a circuit from the chopsticks, through your mouth and body to your arm.

Re: ‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty

#114
post #41

I am a Japanese resident. I am not sure how the local people will react to it commercially. So much of the homestyled food goes with traditional cookware. People always are curious to try out things like this - but fall back to age-old practices. I won't be surprised if people continue using their wooden or ceramic chopsticks and this thing becomes a novelty item in upscale department stores. Consider smoked and deep…

Quoted post unavailable.

"Japs" is a slur.

Re: ‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that like saying someone who won the lottery wasn't lucky, we just don't understand the individual person's chances to win? Like in some way it makes sense but for the purposes of actually deciding whether to recommend whether someone should buy a lottery ticket you can do quite well by looking at the broad trends.

No, winning the lottery is the definition of luck, the lotteries spend a lot of money making sure that's true. There's nothing a person could do (besides play more) that increases their chance of winning. But I believe that long-lived people are more than just "lucky", there's some physiological difference (possibly coupled with environmental differences) that makes the difference between people that eat similar diet…

Extrapolating this line of thought: Let us say, two identical twins are brought up the exact same way. Can we be certain they will have exact same longevity?

Their genetic make up might be similar but there are trillions of stochastic processes happening every moment at the cellular, and each one is capable of a cascade effect in the long run. I think it would be reasonable to assume that scale of precise personalized prediction / recommendation will be a distant possibility, if ever it is even possible.

We might get capable of creating extremely good probabilistic models however, with less than a quarter of the modeling resources by quantifying the different parameters of life taken statistically (e.g. average calorific intake, medicine dependence, exercise etc). That might actually get very close to examining the uncertainty about health & longevity.

Re: ‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that true of literally everything though? Raw vegetables are not safe to eat unless washed properly, cooked meat isn't safe to eat unless cooked properly, raw meat isn't safe to eat unless handled properly, damn even something as simple as garlic oil isn't safe to eat unless you know exactly how it was prepared and stored. I have no idea if the risk with sashimi is any greater than with other things, but I'd gu…

It is true, BUT, (and this is a big but, almost a baby got back but) the risk is not the same for improperly handled vegetables vs. meats or seafood. Poorly handled veggies generally will give you E. Coli, or a similar sort of nasty stomach/food illness. Bad seafood can give you parasites. It’s like the risk of surfing vs. the risk of driving a wave-runner. Both can injure you on the water but a bad wave-runner accid…

Bad seafoods can also give you a bunch of other bacterial infections. Meat, and in particular fish meat, is a breading ground for all sorts of bacteria.

After washing a carrot, it stays safe to eat for hours at room temp. Fruits can stay safe to eat for days. Fish, on the other hand, goes bad in about 2 hours when it's cooked. Much faster when it's raw.

Re: ‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty

#117
post #113

This is probably less invention, more marketing. Manipulating ions requires a lot of current. Drop an AA battery to a soup and nothing remarkable happens quickly, but lick the same battery and you will definitely feel it immediately. If you do it while something sour/salty is in your mouth, your tongue may get confused, since it's only prepared to detect 5 flavors plus hot and cold, and it may simply assigns the extr…

Only one chopstick appears to have an electrode, while the wristband looks like a ground contact. This device looks like it makes a circuit from the chopsticks, through your mouth and body to your arm.

Yup, the "sodium ion" thing sounds like BS. Almost certainly this thing, if it does anything, is merely shocking the tongue at a voltage/current that's high enough to be detected, low enough that you don't know you are being shocked.

Whether or not that "confuses" you into thinking this is salty, IDK.

Re: ‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty

#118

From the description in the video, it looks like this only works with soup. Is that correct? If so, it seems like it would be better to embed in the bowl than in the chopsticks, to avoid the need for wires and the wrist-worn device.

The wires are needed because they are creating a circuit from your mouth to the liquid. The "sodium ion" think is almost assuredly BS. This thing is shocking your tongue and my guess is for some people that gives a "salty" signal to their brain when the voltage is right.

Re: ‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty

#119
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider smoked and deep fried food items. Universally, we have evidence they are connected to cardiovascular diseases and cancers. Or that raw uncooked meat could be risky. Yet, the sashimi, basashi, tempura, and various grilled item food industry is going strong. Educated Japanese understand the risks but it is their way of life... Such risks from sodium get downplayed easily I'm not sure that anyone really underst…

Glad to hear she's doing fine for her age. Surely we understand there are statistical variations, and she's on the healthier side luckily. But fried & smoked diets have very strong correlation to cancers in general, and these are validated by studies over last 2 decades. If I remember correctly, after prostrate, stomach cancer is the next common carcinoma in East Asia. (I could be a bit wrong on relative orders as th…

Given the difficulties with these types of nutrition studies I don’t think its clear at all that fried or smoked foods cause most of the excess cancers in East Asia. It could just as well be the sodium or something about the pickling process or something else. I’m from the Southern US where people eat a lot of smoked BBQ and fried foods and get obesity and heart disease but not as much stomach cancer.

Re: ‘Electric’ chopsticks that make food seem more salty

#120
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan has the developed world's highest life expectancies and yet the Japanese eat double the amount of recommended salt per day. To me that seems sort of inconsistent with salt being a great health risk

Showing examples that refute people hypotheses is so valuable. Reminds me of the Israeli paradox, Israel has very low saturated fat intake but high heart disease rates. This information on it's own completely disproves any claim that high saturated fat could be the sole cause of heart disease. There must be either an underlying or parallel mechanism that explains Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_paradox…

Maybe a result of an higher than usual endogamy in the population.

In biology is called effect of the founder, and explain why Jews of german origin have a higher incidence of several recessive genetic diseases than other groups. Many of the survivors moved probably in mass to Israel after the war.

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