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Is my advice too mercenary?

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Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#111

One of the wisest pieces of career advice I ever heard was "you cannot change an organization by leaving it." It works both ways: if you're leaving in hopes that it'll be a wake-up call to management that a valuable person left, then it probably won't be. And, if you leave your workplace to improve your own life, you've also necessarily chosen not to try and improve the workplace. Leaving means giving up on trying to…

Yeah. Things you say probably fall into a few categories.

-- "So and so is toxic." Maybe they are. But this is the last sort of thing I'm going to get into during an exit interview because this is the sort of thing that could actually come back to bite you.

-- "The company has gotten so big and bureaucratic/isn't doing well/etc." Don't you think they probably know?

-- "I don't agree with the strategy any longer." Well, this might be a data point for some higher up you know well over a beer or whatever but probably isn't going to help anything in an exit interview.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#112
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I checked, pretty much the entire rest of the OECD was between 40% and 70% of US per-capita spending on healthcare. Some spend less total , per capita, than we do just from public spending that we already do (medicare, medicaid, CHIP, public employee healthcare plans, military care like VA and Tricare, et c.) without even having universal care like ~everyone else does

> Last I checked, pretty much the entire rest of the OECD was between 40% and 70% of US per-capita spending on healthcare. Per capita numbers can be misleading on healthcare as health is labor intensive, so countries with higher wages will have higher per capita costs with otherwise similar systems. OTOH, the US spends the second highest share of GDP on healthcare, globally, behind Tuvalu, and about a time and half t…

Yeah, like part of the reason Taiwan, say, is so much cheaper, is that wages are lower across the board.

Canada? Switzerland? Germany? Yes they pay a lot worse for some jobs (software developer, and, more relevantly, doctor) but ordinary fully-loaded employee costs aren't that different from the US. Admittedly, the countries more comparable to the US tend to be more in the 60-70%-of-US-spending range, than on the lower end.

That does mean that even allowing a generous premium over the most-comparable peers, we should be able to cut total healthcare spending 20% while covering everyone and removing a major drag from our economy, and a major factor reducing overall US QoL. As it is, we're struggling (and largely failing) to even keep cost increases to merely the inflation rate.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#113
post #79

One of the wisest pieces of career advice I ever heard was "you cannot change an organization by leaving it." It works both ways: if you're leaving in hopes that it'll be a wake-up call to management that a valuable person left, then it probably won't be. And, if you leave your workplace to improve your own life, you've also necessarily chosen not to try and improve the workplace. Leaving means giving up on trying to…

You cannot meaningfully change any organization without being one of the ~10 most powerful people in it.

Then if you really want them to change, you should try to become one of those powerful people... Not leave, and give up all power you have over them, is my point.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#114
post #73
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see only a complete rejection of the collaborative organization that is society, which provided literally everything that gave you the opportunities and outcomes you now enjoy. And now you brag about enriching yourself beyond your share, occupying space where others could make use of those opportunities, reducing the opportunities for everyone in the future. Society improves when more people have more chances to co…

Society benefits when the mercenary and competitive urges of high achievers are channeled rather than opposed. That's the secret behind the success of modern market economies, and the alternatives are clearly worse for everyone in a society, including the poor. Even the Nordic so-called "socialist" countries are actually market economies, with private ownership of the means of production, and they channel the results…

> Society benefits when the mercenary and competitive urges of high achievers are channeled rather than opposed. That's the secret behind the success of modern market economies...

Big statement, unsubstantiated.

> the alternatives are clearly worse for everyone in a society, including the poor.

Big statement, unsubstantiated.

> they channel the results of capitalism rather than opposing it

This perspective is conspicuously self-serving, but it doesn't seem to be a very clear or elucidating one. What parts of capitalism are being "channeled"? What outcomes are you referring to?

Certainly the poor don't see benefits except where the rich are forced to pay back into public funds for redistribution. It seems to me that the results of capitalism are tempered by more regulated economies, considering the natural end state of capitalist pursuit is feudalism if left unchecked. The profit motive guarantees this.

> that's the only approach that really brings prosperity to a society

This was the popular narrative for describing the failings of Soviet-style communism re: economy. But it stinks of essentialism. Actually, your whole argument does. The reason the CCCP crashed has been studied in more detail now that we have the benefit of hindsight. The rest of the global economy was capitalist, and furthermore, was shaped and organized by a select few power players to engineer the demise of CCCP by creating conditions of brittleness, so that relatively small disruptions (eg localized famines) would cause knock-on effects. There is a direct throughline to today: see all the talk of sanctions vs "the West's" enemies, which amounts to nothing more than exactly what is described above.

> One person's success does not prevent another person's success.

An unqualified notion of "success" seems to be used here. It is not clear even what you think is "success". Seems to be some abstract Enlightenment-style ideal that has a murky-at-best connection to material reality.

One person's consumption prevents another person's consumption because we are limited by the law of conservation of mass-energy. One must consume to innovate. Hoarding and asymmetric investment limit the distribution of these resources to those who may be able to utilize them more effectively, because they can contribute their own IP. This, in the language of basic economics, is called an opportunity cost, and the point of economies (insofar as there is a point) is to minimize that cost. Seems pretty obvious to me, interacting with people from varying levels of class and societal rank, that this cost is harming our progress.

To think we have reached any kind of pinnacle of societal organization demonstrates a depressing lack of imagination. Conservative philosophy has a long way to go to properly argue its side -- and unfortunately for conservatives the work done to advance systems science over the last couple decades has done a lot to tear down the fundamental tenets thereof.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#115
post #97
post #91

There was a time in America a generation or two ago when you could give your all to a company. Here in Michigan there were a number of small towns where a single employer would dominate. If the town needed something, like a baseball park the owner would simply write a check. If a loyal employee had a health crisis that insurance didn't cover the company owner would write a check. When there were tough economic times…

Extremely true and it happened all over, my dad worked for a place for 40 years and the last 10 the MBAs moved in, they were profitable, had profit sharing, and a great company. Today its a footnote in a merger, place is closing down.

NAFTA really destroyed the middle class and middle america.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#116

One of the wisest pieces of career advice I ever heard was "you cannot change an organization by leaving it." It works both ways: if you're leaving in hopes that it'll be a wake-up call to management that a valuable person left, then it probably won't be. And, if you leave your workplace to improve your own life, you've also necessarily chosen not to try and improve the workplace. Leaving means giving up on trying to…

While that's true on an individual basis, I recently left a large company to join a FAANG and, as it turns out, so did quite a few other top performers shortly before me. By the time I left, there were definitely very senior folks asking questions about how to retain talent. I didn't even dislike the job - but the offers from FAANG were a good bit higher and came with some nice perks, so I'd actually think of going back if the message gets through that good technologists are worth paying for.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you should probably tell that to the entire rest of the civilized world where state insurance seems to work quite well.

I have no problem believing that other nations governments do a great job. I also do not live there nor am I a citizen of those countries. American government is a uniquely incompetent form of government. Despite being one of the largest & most expensive governments it gets little to nothing done. Anything that is 'done' is often done far over the original projected budget.

You're conflating things like physical infrastructure and defense contracts with welfare. The welfare that we do give, for the most part, is exceptionally well run and effective.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#118
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the point most people miss. People operate by incentives, mostly internal ones. You go where you derive the most value. He also lost me at `late-stage Capitalist` as if that were a real thing.

You might have misunderstood me. I really meant that my incentives (which are 98% monetary) are well aligned with helping my peers. If they do well, we all elevate each other (I'm monetarily motivated to elevate my peers, through aligned incentives at work through good management and tending to my network) FWIW I'm intentional & clear to my peers about priorities.

I think I got you - a rising tide lifts all boats. And the same can be said about non-monetary values.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#119
post #111

One of the wisest pieces of career advice I ever heard was "you cannot change an organization by leaving it." It works both ways: if you're leaving in hopes that it'll be a wake-up call to management that a valuable person left, then it probably won't be. And, if you leave your workplace to improve your own life, you've also necessarily chosen not to try and improve the workplace. Leaving means giving up on trying to…

Yeah. Things you say probably fall into a few categories. -- "So and so is toxic." Maybe they are. But this is the last sort of thing I'm going to get into during an exit interview because this is the sort of thing that could actually come back to bite you. -- "The company has gotten so big and bureaucratic/isn't doing well/etc." Don't you think they probably know? -- "I don't agree with the strategy any longer." Wel…

Just come up with a socially-acceptable, PR-reason for leaving. Probably whatever you told the new job in their interview: "I'm leaving because of the commute," or "not enough potential for advancement," or something. The goal should be for you to part on good terms, not to take a last shot at them, which will only make them hate you.

Re: Is my advice too mercenary?

#120
post #22

I’m not inclined to do an exit interview because I’ve likely already expressed my opinions. I do think the “the company doesn’t care about you” type advice does require some nuance. Different companies make different choices and just because someone moves from mega corporation to mega corp doesn’t mean you shouldn’t trust anyone… There’s space in between giving your entire self to a company and imagining everyone is…

My experiences while at Cisco about 4-5 years ago: 1st experience: Told my boss I am leaving. My boss’s boss calls me in a room , tells me he has some great projects for me and that we will work together on them. I agree. Turns out it was his last day! 2nd experience: Similar situation, told my boss I am going to a startup. Boss’s boss calls me and gives me a lecture about how it is a bad idea to go to a startup. I l…

I can't imagine what would cause a person to act like that, and on his last day/week of work! Some kind of psycopathy?
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