Reminds me of Carl Sagan's musings on marijuana usage.
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Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom
111–120 of 173 posts
Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
All the studies I've seen either have to do with safety, perceived benefit (self-evaluated), or effect on attitude (openness) as measured by a survey. Do you know of any studies which identify an objectively measurable positive benefit to the subjets? For example: decreased risk of suicide, decreased risk of divorce, increased likelihood of solving a long-standing problem, increased success at work, etc.
"Do you know of any studies which identify an objectively measurable positive benefit to the subjets?" Deciding whether something is objectively measurable or not has thousands of years worth of philosophical baggage, so I can't really say whether any of these will meet your definition, but for what it's worth: - Using LSD to treat alcoholism - Using ibogaine to treat opiate addiction: http://vimeo.com/20118700 - Usi…
Thank you for the response. Philosophical discussion aside, I think most of us can agree that there is a huge difference in reliability between self-reported results, and the more objective examples I mentioned.
I appreciate the videos, but I'm really looking for controlled studies. (In principle, I'm very open to the idea of using drugs like LSD for the treatment of things like alcoholism or cluster headaches. And I think it's a shame that, given the relative degree of safety associated with these drugs, it's nearly impossible to legally runs such studies. But at the end of the day, there looks like a huge lack of evidence and I'm very skeptical.)
Thanks again.
Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom
#113I've taken LSD and 'shrooms a few times, and while I can understand what Jobs is saying, I think he was wrong. I had mystical experiences where I thought I understood that the whole world was connected together, and I was connected to the world, and other deep insights. I think this was just brain-addled delusion, not any insight into how things really are. That said, I fully support these things being legal, and (fo…
I too have taken LSD. Microdots were prevalent circa 1995 in South Yorkshire, which were strong to the point of not being funny. However, I did manage to get my grubby little junkie mitts on a few paper trips which were a lot more pleasant. My own personal view that it did change the way I look at the world in some strange and indescribable ways and the experiences made a large contribution to the person I am today,…
You really put it accurately. When I came to psychedelics I had expectations and excitement and stuff. It didn't turned out exactly as expected.
Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom
#114I wish that his article had delved more into the long term effects (benefits or otherwise) of taking psychedelic drugs rather than going off into a complaint about US drug policy. Anyone got interesting, concrete data to share rather than anecdotes about Steve Jobs?
I see other posters have covered the benefits quite well, of which there are many.
One possible drawback is HPPD: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_percept...
Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've never done LSD but the stories I hear from people I have are sometimes hillarious. I heard one where a guy thought he was a glass of orange juice, and was terrified of laying down b/c he was afraid he'd pour himself out. Another was a bit less creative but no less scary - a giant spider eating his leg from the foot up. I have to say, neither is particularly something I want to experience...
>I heard one where a guy thought he was a glass of orange juice, and was terrified of laying down b/c he was afraid he'd pour himself out. That is one of the original pieces of anti-LSD mythology, along with "I heard about this guy who thought he could fly, so he jumped off a building." The story you quote usually ends with, "and then he fell over by accident and he died of a heart attack." This is why you are being…
Haha, thanks for the explanation, much appreciated. Never occured to me to Snopes something I heard IRL instead of via silly email forward. I feel so gullible now...
Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Do you know of any studies which identify an objectively measurable positive benefit to the subjets?" Deciding whether something is objectively measurable or not has thousands of years worth of philosophical baggage, so I can't really say whether any of these will meet your definition, but for what it's worth: - Using LSD to treat alcoholism - Using ibogaine to treat opiate addiction: http://vimeo.com/20118700 - Usi…
Thank you for the response. Philosophical discussion aside, I think most of us can agree that there is a huge difference in reliability between self-reported results, and the more objective examples I mentioned. I appreciate the videos, but I'm really looking for controlled studies. (In principle, I'm very open to the idea of using drugs like LSD for the treatment of things like alcoholism or cluster headaches. And I…
"I appreciate the videos, but I'm really looking for controlled studies."
Here is the first of probably many controlled studies with 2-bromo-LSD for cluster headaches:
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/06/lsd-alleviates...
The MDMA research on PTSD also has placebo controls. There are several different studies on this, you can probably find them via maps.org.
And James Fadiman writes about actual research done on problem solving in his book, although it isn't really possible to control since each person's long-standing problem is different.
Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which fallacy?
>>A greater percentage of water drinks drown than marijuana/lsd/mushroom users die from marijuana/etc usage Is a fallacy or a false argument in the sense that you can say that about pretty much anything. -Eat just meat for a couple of weeks and it will kill you -Eat just pasta and it will make you sick -cars kill more people than X -etc. etc. He is not providing a real argument. Is like me telling you that aluminum c…
Grandparent: What is the reason for the anti-drug stance of many people at HN?
You: Because drugs can hurt you. Better safe than sorry!
drivebyacct2: That's a useless assertion that can be easily (and more appropriately) applied to many other activities seen as legit in a civil society.
You: But you can say what you said about anything.
See the irony here?
Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom
#118http://homepage.mac.com/mseffie/handouts/hindsight.html
and the relevance to this article is?
Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is that a fallacy? "Better safe than sorry" is a platitude that can be used against any activity that entails some degree of risk.
Greed is not illegal and as long as you do not abuse it just like with alcohol, driving, etc. etc. You should be OK. You could say similar things about some drugs, some argue, unfortunately they are illegal, they can land you in jail, and they support a drug cartel. >>"Better safe than sorry" is a platitude that can be used against any activity that entails some degree of risk. But I wasn't using it for anything. I w…
Yes, I can see that you picked this specific case to apply your platitude. Feel free to pick any number of other cases as well, completely at random if you wish, and your argument will propel them all with equal force.
Re: Steve Jobs, LSD and Drug Freedom
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thank you for the response. Philosophical discussion aside, I think most of us can agree that there is a huge difference in reliability between self-reported results, and the more objective examples I mentioned. I appreciate the videos, but I'm really looking for controlled studies. (In principle, I'm very open to the idea of using drugs like LSD for the treatment of things like alcoholism or cluster headaches. And I…
"I appreciate the videos, but I'm really looking for controlled studies." Here is the first of probably many controlled studies with 2-bromo-LSD for cluster headaches: http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/06/lsd-alleviates... The MDMA research on PTSD also has placebo controls. There are several different studies on this, you can probably find them via maps.org. And James Fadiman writes about actual research do…
Awesome, thanks!
> Cluster headache attack cessation and remission extension of months or longer in six treatment-refractory patients administered only 3 doses of BOL-148
> Five male patients with treatment-refractory chronic cluster headache and one female patient with treatment-refractory mixed cluster/migrainous headache were administered 2-bromo-LSD (BOL-148) (20mcg/kg) at five-day intervals for a total of three treatments. Sixteen-week outcome data on the five male patients revealed a robust treatment response, with three of the five having no attacks for more than one month, thereby shifting their diagnosis back to the episodic form of cluster headache. Similarly, the female patient reported quiescence of cluster attacks for greater than one month and "significant" improvement in migraine in the following weeks from last dose of BOL-148. This poster presents longterm outcome data on all 6 patients who received BOL-148. In follow-up with these patients, BOL-148 provided significant headache relief that lasted for several months to more than one-year. Data suggests that BOL-148 may function as an important new treatment, though, at present, there is no explanation for such long-term prophylactic effects with no later drug re-administrations. There is some evidence that BOL-148 is affecting epigenetic mechanisms and may open the possibility for a near-cure-like treatment for patients afflicted with vascular headaches.
Incidentally, this is apparently a non-hallucinogenic analog of LSD.