Why I'll never use Affirm again • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#111

Post by kodah » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 7:38 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #105

L_Rahman wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0% APR over 12 months for a big ticket purchase like a mattress in an inflationary environment and a bull market can easily equal an additional 5-7% discount on 2000 dollars. Admittedly this is not how most people are using Affirm, but it's definitely been useful to me in that way.

If you pay your balance in full each month every card is 0% forever, at least in the U.K.

Same thing in the US, that's how I use my cards. They're a proxy for purchase and identity protection.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#112

Post by cityofdelusion » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 7:39 PM UTC

Is it normal to do a chargeback against a loan provider? I was under the impression that it’s more for “services rendered” type of situations — which the lender fulfilled by providing the loan. I would expect there to be pure chaos if I did that to any of my lenders. I’ve just never heard of this sort of situation so I’m curious as to what the financial wisdom is.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#113

Post by jerf » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

L_Rahman wrote: post #55

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #17

I've never understood the appeal of using a product like Affirm, especially if you already have a credit card. Credit cards already give you a 30-day grace period before purchases start accruing interest. Using Affirm to extend that to 42 days seems inconsequential. It seems like their target customer are people bad with credit, which would make them predatory.

0% APR over 12 months for a big ticket purchase like a mattress in an inflationary environment and a bull market can easily equal an additional 5-7% discount on 2000 dollars. Admittedly this is not how most people are using Affirm, but it's definitely been useful to me in that way.

Only if you have a source of post-inflation dollars, such as, your salary having been adjusted for inflation in the meantime, or you've sold inflated commodities recently at a post-inflation price, perhaps a used car that appreciated over the purchase term. If you are stuck with pre-inflation dollars this is no advantage.

You should not simply assume that you have access to more dollars just because inflation is rising. If your prices go up but your income does not, or your income significantly lags (anyone who got a pre-emptive inflation raise let me know, otherwise it always lags), you're paying for today's inflation with dollars from last year.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#114

Post by thaway2839 » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #17

I've never understood the appeal of using a product like Affirm, especially if you already have a credit card. Credit cards already give you a 30-day grace period before purchases start accruing interest. Using Affirm to extend that to 42 days seems inconsequential. It seems like their target customer are people bad with credit, which would make them predatory.

Chase is now offering further extended payment options much like Affirm, etc.

Might as well just go with your bank itself, instead of adding another 3rd party merchant into the mix.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#115

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 7:42 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #105

L_Rahman wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0% APR over 12 months for a big ticket purchase like a mattress in an inflationary environment and a bull market can easily equal an additional 5-7% discount on 2000 dollars. Admittedly this is not how most people are using Affirm, but it's definitely been useful to me in that way.

If you pay your balance in full each month every card is 0% forever, at least in the U.K.

Yes, but then you aren't using it as a 12 month loan. You're using it as a one month loan. That is explicitly not what the person you're responding to is looking for.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#116

Post by thaway2839 » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 7:43 PM UTC

skinnymuch wrote: post #50

op00to wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How was Affirm generous? Did they waive interest?

Poor credit means you’re not getting credit cards beyond measly ones

It's funny because giving people with poor credit loans they couldn't repay is exactly what led to the financial crisis and what we villainized the banks for.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#117

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 7:44 PM UTC

system2 wrote: post #91

Not victim blaming. Do not do payments. You either have the money or you don't. Save your money, buy it when you have it fully.

There is a reasonable case made upthread that if you pay it off on time, 0% interest for a few months, especially with inflation, can be a good financial move.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#118

Post by lostdog » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 7:44 PM UTC

arcticfox wrote: post #101

simulate-me wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't just have to prove your facts. You also need to be acquainted with the current law and literally centuries of case-law. The burden is immense for an individual.

My understanding is that this is why we have arbitration.

Arbitration just means they decide your case on secret criteria.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#119

Post by horsawlarway » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 7:45 PM UTC

antihero wrote: post #105

L_Rahman wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0% APR over 12 months for a big ticket purchase like a mattress in an inflationary environment and a bull market can easily equal an additional 5-7% discount on 2000 dollars. Admittedly this is not how most people are using Affirm, but it's definitely been useful to me in that way.

If you pay your balance in full each month every card is 0% forever, at least in the U.K.

This is also true in the US - but not at all what the parent comment meant.

If you pay the balance in full every month - you have spent $2000 on a $2000 mattress by the end of the month. This exposes you to ~30 days of inflation and you will have paid no interest.

If you pay 0% APR over a twelve month period, and make installment payments until making a single lump sum to close out the line of credit at the end of twelve months - you are exposed to something closer to ~365 days of inflation (depending on the installment payments and the lump sum). You will have also paid no interest.

If we assume roughly 7% yearly inflation, you're paying less real value if you take option number two, because you will have paid $2000, but that same mattress is now worth ~$2140 - You are abusing the time differential between purchase and payment to receive a discount.

That said - this is not the majority of folks using these services.

Re: Why I'll never use Affirm again

#120

Post by 71a54xd » Fri, Apr 08, 2022, 7:45 PM UTC

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #17

I've never understood the appeal of using a product like Affirm, especially if you already have a credit card. Credit cards already give you a 30-day grace period before purchases start accruing interest. Using Affirm to extend that to 42 days seems inconsequential. It seems like their target customer are people bad with credit, which would make them predatory.

Even though I have the money, I've used this to leverage my liquid funds for side gigs. Although I have huge ethical issues with predatory companies like Affirm incentivizing people with less financial self-control to spend beyond their means. Honestly, I think companies like Chime are a bigger issue. They're the payday loan grift of today - especially with their advertising clearly targeting minorities that focuses on paycheck advances.