Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#111

Post by cf141q5325 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:29 PM UTC

LAC-Tech wrote: post #29

This doesn't make sense to me. Can i get an explanation? The German state seized a local German branch of the Russian Gazprom company. In order to secure its energy supplies... which come from Russia. Are they in essence capturing some reserves?

I read a great reader comment on the topic (also in German so try DeepL) https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=9cb54d35

Its a political push and pull about who defaults on the existing contracts on gas import, seeing as Russia wants to be payed in ruble now, while Germany would prefer the payments to be stuck on a EU bank account as a form of reparation payments to the Ukraine. To prevent this outcome, Russia in effect might be liquidating the Gazprom Germania. With Gazprom Germania being the ones doing the actual importing. Over the last weekend there was a change in ownership of the Gazprom Germania to new unknown owners. So they might be already bankrupt. To prevent this, Germany is now seizing control of Gazprom Germania and might be on the hook to prevent an insolvency to not default on the contracts with Russia.

In short, the German government fucked up majorly.

edit: Check "throwhow"s post in this thread for a longer summary

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#112

Post by throwaway48375 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:29 PM UTC

PinguTS wrote: post #67

Etherlord87 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently it's probably the same stuff as the original McDonalds. Eventually the quality will deteriorate due to lack of supervision - unless Russians will do an equal job in supervising, which I doubt.

This depends on how much has been sourced locally before and how much has been sourced from the US. Like buns and meat and so could be sourced locally. But spice (mixtures) may have been imported and the mixture recipe is locally unknown.

It can't be that hard to reverse engineer a spice mixture in 2022.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#113

Post by Loic » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:29 PM UTC

chinathrow wrote: post #19

throwhow wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some theory... GAZPROM mother sells gas to the Russian GAZPROM EXPORT OOO (the Russian version of a GmbH) in Petersburg. This sells the gas to GAZPROM Germania in Berlin. This in turn sells the gas to a large number of smaller subsidiaries with their various customers. So far, this strong division has served to minimize risks and taxes. Customers pay the gas to the subsidiaries of GAZPROM Germania in EUR/USD. These a…

You could also link to the original source (in German): https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=9cb54d35

Second to last paragraph (not copy/pasted in the parent comment) shows that the person who wrote this note knows about this stuff. I have customers scrambling right now because if this really big problem.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#114

Post by cjrp » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:32 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #60

recuter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

> Nuclear canceled by the Green Party .. after Fukushima. Trading one tail risk for another. (Germany has oddly lagged in deploying renewables, though. Possibly due to lack of offshore sites, meaning that wind farms have to be deployed against the efforts of NIMBYs)

Surely Germany's a big enough (and sparsely-populated enough) country that wind farms can go somewhere without complaint?

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#115

Post by throwaway48375 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:32 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #77

unmole wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Soviet Union was a reliable energy supplier to (West) Germany even at the height of the Cold War. Ostpolitik was the dominant mode of thinking across party lines. The West has never had any qualms about buying oil and gas from the worst regimes in the world. This outrage over buying from Russia while turning a blind eye to Arab monarchies seems rather perfomative.

> outrage over buying from Russia while turning a blind eye to Arab monarchies seems rather perfomative The Arab monarchies largely keep their messes in their own backyards. When there has been leakage, it has been limited. Russia rolling tanks into Europe is so harebrained it creates a new category of security risk we haven’t had close to home in a while: that of a madman.

>The Arab monarchies largely keep their messes in their own backyards. When there has been leakage, it has been limited.

9/11

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#116

Post by throwaway4good » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:33 PM UTC

Etherlord87 wrote: post #47

throwaway4good wrote: post #18

I hope I one day get to visit a Russian nationalized McDonalds; just to fully grasp what deglobalization means ...

Currently it's probably the same stuff as the original McDonalds. Eventually the quality will deteriorate due to lack of supervision - unless Russians will do an equal job in supervising, which I doubt.

They could send spies into the American McDonalds ...

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#117

Post by yrgulation » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:34 PM UTC

Despite germany's strong dislike for east europeans I am glad to see they are taking measures to help their allies. This is a positive move in the right direction, I hope we figure a way to help germany solve it's dependency of russia in due time, as indeed their economy needs protection.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#118

Post by kkfx » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:34 PM UTC

LAC-Tech wrote: post #29

This doesn't make sense to me. Can i get an explanation? The German state seized a local German branch of the Russian Gazprom company. In order to secure its energy supplies... which come from Russia. Are they in essence capturing some reserves?

Gazprom formally cease it's activity in Germany, and it's German branch operate North Stream gas terminals. "seized" is a bad term to say "the State substitute the local management to ensure terminals operations to been able to buy the gas they need.

If you really look for "sanctions" you'll see that there are some, but not really touching the energy sector since there is so far no viable alternative.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#119

Post by nix23 » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:34 PM UTC

archerx wrote: post #88

nix23 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But in Switzerland the population voted against nuclear energy, and with that we "the people" are as stupid as the green party, right?

>'and with that we "the people" are as stupid as the green party, right?' Yes.

But we can import it from france and we have hydro, why even care about the nuclear-waste and all the negative sides of it.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss-get-75--of-power-from-ren...

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#120

Post by ithkuil » Tue, Apr 05, 2022, 12:35 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #59

MrRiddle wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pushing NATO expansion in Ukraine and arming them with hi-tech weaponry.

Ukraine wasn’t armed with hi-tech weaponry until Russia started invading in 2014 and then continued being a bad actor which culminated in January/February 2022 delivery of said weapons at the last second. NATO expansion is a convenient excuse but fails for two reasons: 1. Baltics are closer to Moscow than Ukraine and right on the border. 2. It is widely acknowledged that the primary driver for Putin is not NATO expan…

this!

Yeah, this argument about the NATO threat is repeated ad nauseam because it superficially sounds like a reasonable justification: "they just had to defend themselves".

But even if that was true, Otto von Bismarck said it well: "Preventive war is like committing suicide out of fear of death".

Imagine an alternate universe where Ukraine joins EU and NATO and now russia faces a NATO "wall" on the west. In this alternate universe where Russia didn't initiate an aggression, the public opinion of most european countries is not particularly interested in military spending.

Compare that with this universe; the city I live in in Italy is going to build a new military base and while some people will certainly complain, the backlash won't come close to a pre-war scenario. Now even the population feel it that the rules have changed.

Effectively Putin has armed Europe to their teeth. What a perfect 4D chess move to protect Russian safety.

And seriously, I yet have to understand what is the threat that "NATO" would pose to Russia. What should they be worried about? Are they afraid that one morning NATO will invade Russia? What for? This part of the scenario is so embarrassingly hand-wavy, seemingly imbued only of reverberance of a distant past.

Or is it that Russia be afraid of Western values infecting Russia? In that case, what difference does it make how many neighbouring countries are NATO members? You can just decide to make your laws and your policies and live your life according to your chosen lifestyle (if your citizens so wish)

Or is it perhaps that Russia used to be a super power and now it isn't anymore. The greatness past now must live again. Let's reclaim our destiny and all this bullshit. This not how civilised nations should be run. This is barbaric and should stop and sadly the only reason humanity has to put up with it is the nuclear arsenal.