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Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

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Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#111

Post by snidane »

NoraCodes wrote: post #98
snidane wrote: post #43

While the ivermectin story is largely explained by the confounding factor of parasite presence in developing countries, it indirectly helped covid patients by curing them of other problems and thus reducing the potence of covid. Not so much in the developed countries since the parasite problem was small. Concerning though, was the society's attitude to the Ivermectin, an safe drug prescribed by WHO in Africa en masse…

> Who would have though that Vladimir Putin would become the world's most successful doctor and cure the world of the pandemic overnight. Please, don't leave us hanging - i want to hear the rest! I wonder if your novel might be better suited for AO3 or FanFiction.net, though?

Sorry, I don't know how to write fan fiction. I don't know what you guys over there read.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#112

Post by maxerickson »

azangru wrote: post #50
belter wrote: post #35

We did not eliminate pandemics. Instead, as a Society we barely made it through this one. Despite the massive human and economic cost of this latest pandemic, governments are making the same mistakes again: - Lack of preparation. - Not enough resources allocated to research. - Too much reliance on Pharma and particularly Vaccine producing companies. The best research is still done mostly via foundations or private fu…

> - Lack of preparation. > - Not enough resources allocated to research. How do you prepare for something that you don't know is going to happen? How would you have prepared for a major coronavirus outbreak before covid, for example? Some might even argue that it's precisely because of the research done in preparation for a new pandemic, which included studying novel coronaviruses using something that Fauci says was…

Lots of people have been beating the drum about the harm that could come from a highly infectious respiratory virus, for literally decades.

You can't really target a specific pathogen directly ahead of time, but for example, monitoring can buy weeks of time to deal with infections that are doubling in days.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#113

Post by maskil »

jiggawatts wrote: post #6

Ivermectin works because the first trials were done in developing economies where the average person had a high chance of parasitic infections. The steroids used as a standard front-line treatment for severe COVID decreases the immune response to parasites, allowing them to multiply unchecked. This killed patients indirectly, but dead is dead , and they "checked in" with COVID, not parasite complaints. Ivermectin is…

Ivermectin isn't popular because of Joe Rogan and he hasn't especially promoted it.

At the time that Rogan did have the episode with Dr Kory and Bret Weinstein, Ivermectin was already very popular and he hasn't been promoting it since (yes, he may have had a guest or two that brought it up during the conversation, but it was peripheral).

The media had a collective freakout because when he got Covid he mentioned on Instagram a laundry list of medicines he's taking and Ivermectin (the human form) was among them.

Blaming him or Spotify for all of society's ills is just an attempt to prevent dissent on mainstream discourse.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#114

Post by phoinix »

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #12
simonh wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Joe he wasn't giving medical advice, but licensed doctors on his show were.

This sounds reasonable, until you realise that his opinions massively skew which licensed doctors he lets on the show. So effectively you’re ending up with him pushing his opinion anyway. If you cherry-pick your experts enough, you’ll be able to find one that agrees with you, no matter how absurd your position. I’ll also note that much of the time the licensed doctors he invites on aren’t actually in relevant special…

No post body was provided.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#115

Post by bonIvermectin »

prohobo wrote: post #72
jiggawatts wrote: post #6

Ivermectin works because the first trials were done in developing economies where the average person had a high chance of parasitic infections. The steroids used as a standard front-line treatment for severe COVID decreases the immune response to parasites, allowing them to multiply unchecked. This killed patients indirectly, but dead is dead , and they "checked in" with COVID, not parasite complaints. Ivermectin is…

That is not the effect they're trying to test. Yes, ivermectin is an anti-parasitic, and yes that's probably why there's anecdotal evidence of it working. The reason people are testing it is because it has potential anti-viral properties as well. Researchers discovered that ivermectin is a protease inhibitor - which means it can prevent viral replication when it comes to Covid. The problem, from what I understand, is…

> it has potential anti-viral properties as well

doses much higher than the maximum approved or safely achievable for use in humans would be required for an antiviral effect while treating COVID-19

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7172803/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7934083/

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#116

Post by xadhominemx »

prohobo wrote: post #72
jiggawatts wrote: post #6

Ivermectin works because the first trials were done in developing economies where the average person had a high chance of parasitic infections. The steroids used as a standard front-line treatment for severe COVID decreases the immune response to parasites, allowing them to multiply unchecked. This killed patients indirectly, but dead is dead , and they "checked in" with COVID, not parasite complaints. Ivermectin is…

That is not the effect they're trying to test. Yes, ivermectin is an anti-parasitic, and yes that's probably why there's anecdotal evidence of it working. The reason people are testing it is because it has potential anti-viral properties as well. Researchers discovered that ivermectin is a protease inhibitor - which means it can prevent viral replication when it comes to Covid. The problem, from what I understand, is…

You also seem confused. Yes, some people are interested in Ivermectin as a protease inhibitor. But the reason the de-wormer came to prominence in the first place was because some lower quality studies found it has a positive effect on COVID-19 outcomes. The most famous study in this collection came out of Brazil. But the reason that study found a positive impact from Ivermectin is that parasites are a harmful COVID co-morbidity, Ivermectin effectively treats parasites, and a lot of people in Brazil are afflicted with parasites.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#117

Post by acdha »

StreamBright wrote: post #82
_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a story because people, for some stupid reason, started buying the horse version of the drug and horse owners couldn't get Ivermectin for their horses anymore: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/20/ivermectin-sho... I haven't read any story that said: "It's a horsey drug for horses! If you take it, that means you're a horse!"

> started buying the horse version of the drug FYI there is no horse version of drugs. It would be a logistics and production nightmare to produce two kind of medicine like that. If a medicine has a chemical compound (like for example Amoxicillin) then it is good for both your fish and for you generally speaking.

It looks like the source of your mistake is missing that while the active ingredient is the same, the formulations differ both due to size and variation in how the body handles the drug. For example, differences in bioavailability or the liver’s effectiveness breaking it down affect the choices about dosage and what other compounds are used to encourage uptake, make absorption faster or slower, etc. This is why you’ll often see species-specific warnings on veterinary medication since they don’t want you assuming that you can give one of your pets the same thing you got for a different one without checking.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#118

Post by ithkuil »

thurn wrote: post #75
eggy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So tired of people attacking Joe Rogan. He's a pod caster. How come people don't push more on the 'experts' like Wolensky or Fauci or the main stream media? Ignoring natural immunity, not releasing publicly funded data to scientists and citizens to do science, openly lying in the name of 'for your own good', or tweeting a statistic that is way off from the data they released - the list goes on, and these are the high…

You have committed the logical fallacy of 'to quoque', responding to criticism with criticism. The scrutiny (or lack thereof) for other individuals is of course irrelevant to the question.

s/to/tu

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#119

Post by alecst »

jiggawatts wrote: post #6

Ivermectin works because the first trials were done in developing economies where the average person had a high chance of parasitic infections. The steroids used as a standard front-line treatment for severe COVID decreases the immune response to parasites, allowing them to multiply unchecked. This killed patients indirectly, but dead is dead , and they "checked in" with COVID, not parasite complaints. Ivermectin is…

Your first paragraph is a wild guess. There’s no reason having parasites should make Covid-19 more severe, and many human parasites do not even multiply inside the body during their life cycle.

In fact there’s even a paper floating around showing an anti-correlation between helminth infection and Covid-19 severity.

My point being: the “obvious” mechanism of action may not be as obvious as you think.

Re: Ivermectin Didn’t Reduce Covid-19 Hospitalizations in Largest Trial to Date

#120

Post by tinus_hn »

janmarsal wrote: post #81

I don't get it. I don't understand anything about medicine but as far as I know the Japanese used ivermectin to treat COVID so it's not just some developing countries that use it. I'm from Finland and our national news company even reported about some Finnish pharma companies that developed a nasal spay that could treat COVID. That nasal spray included ivermectin and they said it's such a shame ivermectin has such a…

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