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Reddit blocks posting any .ru links

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Re: Reddit blocks posting any .ru links

#111

Post by Scandiravian »

quantum_solanum wrote: post #109
Scandiravian wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused about what your argument is here. It sounds to me that your position is that this article is proof that Ukraine's government are Nazis (it's not), therefore Putin is justified both in invading Ukraine and the war crimes he's most likely responsible for during said invasion. Is that correct?

> Is that correct? Nope! I think Putin only cares about having a buffer zone from NATO, much like Afghanistan is (or was intended to be) for the US against China. I'm simply providing examples to your question upthread: > Are they holding political office or have strong influence on the politics of Ukraine? All 3 examples hold political office and 2 are upper-level administrative positions.

So you agree that Ukraine is not run by Nazis and that Putin's invasion of Ukraine is unjustified?

Re: Reddit blocks posting any .ru links

#112

Post by Scandiravian »

dilap wrote: post #106
Scandiravian wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article you link is written by Alexander Rubinstein - a former RT and Sputnik employee. He is a strong denier of Russian interference in the 2016 election, has been vocal in his support for Assad, and denied, not only China's genocide on Uyghurs, but that the Uyghur population even exists. There's an article on The Gray Zone by the center for right wing analysis here https://www.radicalrightanalysis.com/2020/09/2…

Is the article inaccurate? Are there falsehoods?

The facts they choose to print are probably true - which again is part of the alt-right playbook.

Cherry pick the facts that helps you muddy the waters enough to instill doubt and create false equivalence in the mind of the reader between there being Nazis in Ukraine and indiscriminate murder of civilians plus turning more than a million people into refugees in less than two weeks.

So I'd ask you - do you think that there being Nazis in Ukraine is justification for indiscriminate bombing of civilians?

Re: Reddit blocks posting any .ru links

#113

Post by quantum_solanum »

Scandiravian wrote: post #111
quantum_solanum wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is that correct? Nope! I think Putin only cares about having a buffer zone from NATO, much like Afghanistan is (or was intended to be) for the US against China. I'm simply providing examples to your question upthread: > Are they holding political office or have strong influence on the politics of Ukraine? All 3 examples hold political office and 2 are upper-level administrative positions.

So you agree that Ukraine is not run by Nazis and that Putin's invasion of Ukraine is unjustified?

Sure. Do you agree that there are fascist elements in Ukraine's government that should dealt with (by the Ukrainians, to be clear)? If you don't, which aspects of my examples do you contest?

Re: Reddit blocks posting any .ru links

#114

Post by isitmadeofglass »

I get this whole “let’s all push Russia to enter into a peaceful conclusion” mentality. But I can’t help but feel that we’re entering 1984 territory when we’re trying to close off any and all possibility of Russian communication or products to reach us. “But it’s propaganda” sure, fine, but no one is censoring Pro Ukrainian propaganda, so it’s not being blocked just by that fact. And myself and others would very much like to hear the propaganda from both sides even if one is clearly in the right and the other in the wrong.

Re: Reddit blocks posting any .ru links

#115

Post by TMWNN »

ehsankia wrote: post #52
remram wrote: post #4

This just seems completely backwards. We lament every time a country in crisis/civil war blocks Internet for its citizens: Sudan, Kazakhstan, Burkina Faso, Yemen, ... and then we cut Russia from the Internet on our side [1] If the point of sanctions is to get the local population to rise and make it difficult for the government to keep its course, why cut out their access to independent news that would let them know…

Being blocked from sharing Russian-owned content is absolutely nothing like being cut off from the internet or information. At best it's limiting the spread of Russian-owned content. I'm not sure why HN comments are so quick to make these extreme fear-mongering comparisons. Just yesterday I saw a top comment comparing Youtube removing a video to Chinese censorship...

>Being blocked from sharing Russian-owned content is absolutely nothing like being cut off from the internet or information. At best it's limiting the spread of Russian-owned content.

I am reading Clark's Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Downfall of Prussia (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RI9PMM/>). Right after hearing about YouTube shutting down Russian state media channels, I was surprised to learn in the book of the extent of the freedom of the press in late 18th-century Prussia. A British visitor wrote that people were as free to speak as back home, citing a work that was very critical of the king in the context of Poland. During the Napoleonic wars, despite the existential threat to Prussia from France, at least four newspapers that celebrated Revolutionary France as the next step in human freedom were allowed to publish.

It's always preferable to counter propaganda with free speech. Even liars deserve the opportunity to speak. This is especially true when there is no formally declared war between the US and Russia.

Re: Reddit blocks posting any .ru links

#116

Post by [deleted] »

Scandiravian wrote: post #111
quantum_solanum wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is that correct? Nope! I think Putin only cares about having a buffer zone from NATO, much like Afghanistan is (or was intended to be) for the US against China. I'm simply providing examples to your question upthread: > Are they holding political office or have strong influence on the politics of Ukraine? All 3 examples hold political office and 2 are upper-level administrative positions.

So you agree that Ukraine is not run by Nazis and that Putin's invasion of Ukraine is unjustified?

[deleted]

Re: Reddit blocks posting any .ru links

#117

Post by Scandiravian »

quantum_solanum wrote: post #113
Scandiravian wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you agree that Ukraine is not run by Nazis and that Putin's invasion of Ukraine is unjustified?

Sure. Do you agree that there are fascist elements in Ukraine's government that should dealt with (by the Ukrainians, to be clear)? If you don't, which aspects of my examples do you contest?

I have no opinion on how Ukraine deals with an internal situation - that's for the people of Ukraine to decide.

I definitely don't like fascists or Nazis, which is why I find it peculiar that you're spending time contributing to a discussion by posting supporting "evidence" for an article written by a guy with a fascist agenda.

Right now I'm more worried about the fascists that try to justify Putin's war crimes.

Ukraine is not run by Nazis and Putin is responsible for the murdering of civilians in an unjustified invasion of a democratic country.

If you're also against fascism, then maybe you should stop helping them when people spread their propaganda.

Re: Reddit blocks posting any .ru links

#118

Post by 331c8c71 »

isitmadeofglass wrote: post #114

I get this whole “let’s all push Russia to enter into a peaceful conclusion” mentality. But I can’t help but feel that we’re entering 1984 territory when we’re trying to close off any and all possibility of Russian communication or products to reach us. “But it’s propaganda” sure, fine, but no one is censoring Pro Ukrainian propaganda, so it’s not being blocked just by that fact. And myself and others would very much…

I guess it's intentional. Ukranian propaganda and fakes are fine because they foster the desired narrative. No one cares about your desire to be informed and to make your own conclusions.

Re: Reddit blocks posting any .ru links

#119

Post by 331c8c71 »

8note wrote: post #107
imwillofficial wrote: post #26

This anti Russia bigotry is out of control. Disagree with the fighting all you want, but Russia is a big place with a lot of normal people just trying to live their lives. Everyone cheering for this should be ashamed of themselves for their blind Russiaphobia. A government is not its people.

The government depends on its people to be able to do things like run a war. You can't cleanly separate the two. the only way this war ends without escalation is when the Russian people convince their government to stop fighting it

> the only way this war ends without escalation is when the Russian people convince their government to stop fighting it

It's not happening in weeks to come whatever the west does.

Re: Reddit blocks posting any .ru links

#120

Post by ehsankia »

TMWNN wrote: post #115
ehsankia wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being blocked from sharing Russian-owned content is absolutely nothing like being cut off from the internet or information. At best it's limiting the spread of Russian-owned content. I'm not sure why HN comments are so quick to make these extreme fear-mongering comparisons. Just yesterday I saw a top comment comparing Youtube removing a video to Chinese censorship...

>Being blocked from sharing Russian-owned content is absolutely nothing like being cut off from the internet or information. At best it's limiting the spread of Russian-owned content. I am reading Clark's Iron Kingdom: The Rise and Downfall of Prussia ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002RI9PMM/ >). Right after hearing about YouTube shutting down Russian state media channels, I was surprised to learn in the book of the ex…

> It's always preferable to counter propaganda with free speech

Except the past few years have shown that not only does not work in practice, it can actually lead to people dying and democracy breaking.

The reality is that a lie takes a fraction of the effort than it takes to counter said lie. People can post dozens of blatant lie about vaccines and COVID on youtube in the time it takes people to fact check and counter a single one. The information war is asymmetric, especially when people can get rich from spreading lies which get clicks and attention.

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