Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor? • Hacker News Board

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#111

Post by BeefWellington » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:54 PM UTC

No. You have misunderstood.

For starters, it'd be hard to argue that RT is "operating" within the EU if the only way to access their content was via TOR. It's not; you can still just view their website as far as my colleagues are telling me.

The thing that's being denied here is their ability to operating business and broadcast - already a very highly regulated thing in most (all?) countries, within EU borders. In practical terms this means having to access RT servers probably outside of the EU, broadcast signals can't be sent within it for that channel, etc.

The internet is not broadcasting.

Were this intended to stop people from viewing it online as well, it would specifically call out RT as Illegal content in some way, so as to invoke one of the possible reasons to actually block their website.[1]

   EU rules on open internet give you the right as a user to access and/or distribute any online content and services you choose. Your internet provider cannot block, slow down or discriminate against any online content, applications or services, except in 3 specific cases:

   - to comply with legal obligations, such as a court order blocking specific illegal content
   - to preserve the security and integrity of the network, for example to combat viruses or malware
   - to manage exceptional or temporary network congestion

Relevant bit is in [2] (13); I couldn't find the more up-to-date post-review regulation.

[1]: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/internet-tel...

[2]: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELE...

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#112

Post by proctrap » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

BeefWellington wrote: post #97

proctrap wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You surely do have laws against incitement of the masses, don't you ? One example: In Germany it's forbidden by law to deny the holocaust, use nazi symbols, greetings or other media from that era. And some state sponsored TV telling your they're saving people or helping some states while raiding their homes, killing them and using thermobaric weapons is ok ? That this won't create an uproar among all families and rel…

While I'm often one to point out the flaws in "ultimate freedom of speech" that many people parrot here, there is a tangible difference between being politically and philosophically pro-free speech and the way the laws are written. You can simultaneously believe that free speech is important but that you shouldn't be able to just print lie after lie after lie about a person without repercussion.

I think that's an attitude I can support.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#113

Post by xtian » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:55 PM UTC

dsabanin wrote: post #108

xtian wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you apply the same standard to BBC? If not, what's the difference?

The difference is, RT is pure, unadulterated, lie. It's government-sponsored infowars. It's under complete control by FSB/KGB and serves exclusively as a platform for launching russian PsyOps.

Ok so the difference is an ideological fantasy you've invented

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#114

Post by dsabanin » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

yanmaani wrote: post #55

paxys wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU and Russia are at war in all but name. One of the key challenges in such situations is combating enemy propaganda, and so not letting the Russian state controlled broadcaster play in your country 24x7 is a no brainer. Plus it isn't just about the content. Running a TV network can be a massively profitable business, and in this case the money is going out of EU citizens' pockets and straight to the Russian governme…

No. They are not at war "in all but name". War is a brutal thing, involving the deaths of thousands of young men. The EU is not by any stretch at war with Russia, nominally or otherwise. The entire point of a free country is that people can handle the information. If not, why even bother?

Russia is already sending same threat letters with "safety guarantees" to European countries. On March 4th they are planning a big gathering for another speech of Putin. Russia is making changes to ODKB rules (shitty version of NATO among the post-soviet countries), that introduces the definition of "coordinating member" of this military alliance. They are about to start a 3rd world war.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#115

Post by byteshock » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

arroz wrote: post #103

random_upvoter wrote: post #101

It's depressing how utterly normal this level of censorship has become in Western society. Ten years ago there would have been at least a modicum of ho-hum about decisions to ban foreign media. I've watched RT on a few occasions and I never thought their reporting outright propaganda. It does have a clear non-pro-West bias which gives you a dose of awareness that Western reporting is biased too.

What is your point? That Russia state TV should be available everywhere so everyone can watch Russian propaganda?

If someone wants to watch Russian propaganda or RT, they should be free to do so. Just like you are free to browse western media sites.

This choice should be up to the individual and their beliefs.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#116

Post by oulipo » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:57 PM UTC

xtian wrote: post #106

arroz wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your point? That Russia state TV should be available everywhere so everyone can watch Russian propaganda?

Would you apply the same standard to BBC? If not, what's the difference?

We do apply the same standard. It just happens that BBC is not propaganda television

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#117

Post by yrgulation » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:58 PM UTC

I believe those propagandising on behalf of an enemy - ideological or armed - without fully understanding their goals are called "useful idiots". Watch and marvel at how this term gains meaning on this thread.

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#118

Post by imwillofficial » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:58 PM UTC

arroz wrote: post #103

random_upvoter wrote: post #101

It's depressing how utterly normal this level of censorship has become in Western society. Ten years ago there would have been at least a modicum of ho-hum about decisions to ban foreign media. I've watched RT on a few occasions and I never thought their reporting outright propaganda. It does have a clear non-pro-West bias which gives you a dose of awareness that Western reporting is biased too.

What is your point? That Russia state TV should be available everywhere so everyone can watch Russian propaganda?

Who are you to decide what’s propaganda for me?

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#119

Post by xtian » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

oulipo wrote: post #116

xtian wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you apply the same standard to BBC? If not, what's the difference?

We do apply the same standard. It just happens that BBC is not propaganda television

How can you tell?

Re: Does the EU's ban on RT also ban Tor?

#120

Post by arroz » Thu, Mar 03, 2022, 2:59 PM UTC

ggg45678923 wrote: post #99

Quoted post unavailable.

Funny, last time I saw a totalitarian government they would imprison you just for saying what you are saying. You know like the arrested people for protesting against the war in Moscow. Calling the banning of a foreign broadcasting company “totalitarism” seems a bit like overblowing it. Probably you have no idea what totalirism means on your skin.