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Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

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Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#111

Post by lazide »

Wiseacre wrote: post #107
lazide wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge of course is abilities matter for society in a huge number of ways - irrespective of personal circumstances. We need the best surgeons, engineers, leaders, teachers, etc. - not the best weighted by some sort of ‘difficulty during upbringing’ score.

How many Einsteins are out there that never had the upbringing and resources he did?

You aren't going to fix that by only letting folks with terrible upbringings in important positions. You'd need to start fixing those terrible upbringings, and likely wait a few generations.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#112

Post by markdown »

ipnon wrote: post #100

It's discrimination any way you slice it. You can't lower the bar for one person without raising it for another so long as the class sizes remain the same. If elite universities are about providing education (a valid point of critical contention), then systematically barring Asians from entry is the same class of injustice litigated in Brown v. Board of Education. It's not enough to say you can learn calculus just as…

No post body was provided.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#113

Post by friedman23 »

markdown wrote: post #112
ipnon wrote: post #100

It's discrimination any way you slice it. You can't lower the bar for one person without raising it for another so long as the class sizes remain the same. If elite universities are about providing education (a valid point of critical contention), then systematically barring Asians from entry is the same class of injustice litigated in Brown v. Board of Education. It's not enough to say you can learn calculus just as…

Quoted post unavailable.

> but it's good for society

I feel like you've taken this position as a fact without having any evidence supporting it.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#114

Post by actually_a_dog »

TeeMassive wrote: post #58
woodruffw wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "mainstream Progressive (sic) justification" for discriminating against Asians, because there is no progressive political platform built on discriminating against Asians. Many progressives believe in affirmative action, which doesn't say anything about the particulars of the groups that aren't being explicitly included. Nobody at all is interested in exclusion ; they are interested in more inclusion .

> Nobody at all is interested in exclusion; they are interested in more inclusion. In a contingency, the inclusion of a group will result in exclusion in other groups.

The doctrine of double effect applies here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_double_effect

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#115

Post by ipnon »

markdown wrote: post #112
ipnon wrote: post #100

It's discrimination any way you slice it. You can't lower the bar for one person without raising it for another so long as the class sizes remain the same. If elite universities are about providing education (a valid point of critical contention), then systematically barring Asians from entry is the same class of injustice litigated in Brown v. Board of Education. It's not enough to say you can learn calculus just as…

Quoted post unavailable.

The point is there is no difference between Harvard's current admissions policy and telling the marginalized Asian students, "great application, but we don't accept your kind here anymore." It's not right when it happens to Asians, it's not right when it happens to Blacks, it's not right when it happens to anybody.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#116

Post by travisporter »

userbinator wrote: post #51
goodoldneon wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you suggest we increase admissions for under-represented groups?

You don't. That shouldn't ever be a goal. Unfortunately a lot of people don't realise that the real world isn't, and can't be, that way.

Don’t you want to look at my dice if I don’t get a 6 after 50 rolls? 12? I think it’s reasonable at a certain point

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#117

Post by Decker87 »

markdown wrote: post #112
ipnon wrote: post #100

It's discrimination any way you slice it. You can't lower the bar for one person without raising it for another so long as the class sizes remain the same. If elite universities are about providing education (a valid point of critical contention), then systematically barring Asians from entry is the same class of injustice litigated in Brown v. Board of Education. It's not enough to say you can learn calculus just as…

Quoted post unavailable.

Why do you believe it's good for America?

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#118

Post by guynamedloren »

j7ake wrote: post #109

Would it be more fair to weight applicants by household income rather than race? For example, given two equally strong applicants, but one is from upper class and the other lower class, it seems clear that the lower class applicant is stronger, because they were able to achieve similarly with fewer resources.

Thought provoking, but the cynical side of me says that this is easily gameable.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#119

Post by j7ake »

guynamedloren wrote: post #118
j7ake wrote: post #109

Would it be more fair to weight applicants by household income rather than race? For example, given two equally strong applicants, but one is from upper class and the other lower class, it seems clear that the lower class applicant is stronger, because they were able to achieve similarly with fewer resources.

Thought provoking, but the cynical side of me says that this is easily gameable.

It’s probably not that gameable because universities already give aid on a need basis.

A real cynical view would say that top universities benefit more from accepting students from rich families than poor.

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