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Caltech's CS interview prep course

courses.cms.caltech.edu

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Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#111
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've interviewed dozens of people and never had that experience, because I check OSS contributions, professional history, and ask for code samples before I even engage with a candidate in a technical discussion. How are you supposed to hire 50,000 people a year with a process like that? It seems unlikely there are much more than 100,000 people with significant OSS contributions in total. Published material isn’t go…

> How are you supposed to hire 50,000 people a year with a process like that? This is a straw-man. What company has to hire 50,000 engineers a year? Facebook has (in total) ~10,000 engineers (hired over a decade+). Someone has nothing published and no OSS? Great, ask for code samples and the candidate to walk you through the code. It's completely trivial to fix the busted status quo, but people are invested in this n…

I think the more important overarching point is that most candidates aren't prolific github people like you, and likewise most companies are not going to cater their interviewing practices to woo your preferred flavor of interview style.

Most candidates don't have code samples laying around (e.g. they only write proprietary code for work), so asking for some is a non-starter in a lot of cases.

Another point worth of reflecting, your accomplishments in OSS say nothing of interviewing expertise, they are completely different skillsets. Companies may not hire in the order of 50k people a year, but interviewer calibration in a large org is absolutely a problem that isn't easily solved by just following the opinion of some random 6-digit salary SWE.

As someone who's interviewed in the order of a few hundred senior SWEs, I think there are good and bad ways to go about any interview format, including leetcode-style.

Complaining about how companies don't just throw away their interview practices in favor of [insert pet format here] doesn't really help, since it isn't really actionable.

We talk about the perils of full software rewrites, I think similar concerns exist for hiring as well.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#112
post #40

My career path in tech so far has been junior engineer -> mid level -> senior -> tech lead. As I've progressed through that path, I have had literally no opportunities of applying the stuff I've learnt on HackerRank, save for a couple of interviews. At this point I'm convinced that the focus of those interviews was entirely wrong. Once you pass those tests and get hired, you will be dealing with tons of legacy code r…

> I have had literally no opportunities of applying the stuff I've learnt on HackerRank I have. Many times.

If you are THE Walter Bright, I have no doubt you have. Respect

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#113

So wait you are smart enough to get into caltech, smart enough to graduate with a degree in CS. And yet the curriculum on its own does not do a good job enough on its own to prepare you for getting a job? Very hard to graduate with a decent GPA in CS at caltech and not be able to thrive as an entry level engineer. If you got B’s in caltech CS I’d make you an offer for 200k+ without blinking or even asking you anythin…

Here we see what the alternative to whiteboard interviews: credentialism. Get into the right school and muddle through and get a guaranteed 200k! Is there more to you than your high school performance? Push back against this if so! (Calling the interview Leetcode is misleading IME, since I've rarely been asked something that would be near the upper tiers of that site's difficulty). Top-tier tech companies face a LOT…

[deleted]

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#114
post #40

My career path in tech so far has been junior engineer -> mid level -> senior -> tech lead. As I've progressed through that path, I have had literally no opportunities of applying the stuff I've learnt on HackerRank, save for a couple of interviews. At this point I'm convinced that the focus of those interviews was entirely wrong. Once you pass those tests and get hired, you will be dealing with tons of legacy code r…

Bingo. It should be telling that there are a number of, usually for-profit, resources for prepping for just the interview process: * leetcode * Cracking the Coding Interview * Elements of Programing Interviews * Interview Kickstart, which costs like $5500, is a bootcamp just for passing interviews * educative.io * algoexpert.io That being said, I might just play along with the DS / Algo interview game. Having an inte…

What is that supposed to be telling? There are a quite a few industries where there are profitable neighbor industries around breaking in to it. Even ones with licensing and blah blah blah instead of whiteboards.

Hell, the cynics would call the entire current university system one! And if not that, than it least the massive industries around getting into better schools...

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#115
post #40

My career path in tech so far has been junior engineer -> mid level -> senior -> tech lead. As I've progressed through that path, I have had literally no opportunities of applying the stuff I've learnt on HackerRank, save for a couple of interviews. At this point I'm convinced that the focus of those interviews was entirely wrong. Once you pass those tests and get hired, you will be dealing with tons of legacy code r…

Bingo. It should be telling that there are a number of, usually for-profit, resources for prepping for just the interview process: * leetcode * Cracking the Coding Interview * Elements of Programing Interviews * Interview Kickstart, which costs like $5500, is a bootcamp just for passing interviews * educative.io * algoexpert.io That being said, I might just play along with the DS / Algo interview game. Having an inte…

> I can complain all day to my bosses about how hard it is to hire (its not that hard) and meanwhile rip their HR budget to shreds when I threaten to leave unless I get paid more (I've done that before, I recently got a promotion and 50% raise on base alone).

Kudos for that. I may be making a similar move soon.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#116
post #88

I'm a bit confused. The course number on the page and in the URL is CS 11. But the Caltech course catalog lists CS 11 as "Computer Language Lab" [1] and the description is nothing like the CS 11 at the submitted URL. [1] https://catalog.caltech.edu/current/courses/department/CS/20...

It seems to change topics depending on the term

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no objective standards for the output of the software development process. It's a unique mishmash of building the blueprints and the final artifact at the same time. Not because we want to be a bunch of cowboys, but because the unique ability of it to be that flexible, and to be patched over time, means speed is possible in a way it just isn't in other fields, and the market has rewarded companies that move…

You are talking about the nitty-gritty aspects of actual software engineering. I’m talking about doing away with the redundancy of having to retake the industry-wide Leetcode fizzbuzz portion instead of passing it once.

I'm asking that since the job itself is wildly unstandardized, how on earth are we supposed to standardize a single "industry-wide" credential for interviews?

There's no "industry-wide Leetcode fizzbuzz portion" - Leetcode and fizzbuzz are famously on complete opposite sides of the whiteboard spectrum! I've only been asked actual fizzbuzz once, and can't immediately think of any other duplicate whiteboard problems I've seen either. Many of them aren't ones I've seen on Leetcode, and would probably be on the "easy" scale there if they were there.

I couldn't pick out any single problem that would make everyone at all my last few jobs happy, let alone the whole rest of the industry.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we see what the alternative to whiteboard interviews: credentialism. Get into the right school and muddle through and get a guaranteed 200k! Is there more to you than your high school performance? Push back against this if so! (Calling the interview Leetcode is misleading IME, since I've rarely been asked something that would be near the upper tiers of that site's difficulty). Top-tier tech companies face a LOT…

> why should I trust the university selection process more than those corporate hiring ones? I don't know the US education system enough, but there are some schools out there which are much more selective than any SWE interview process. You can be guaranteed that the worst student from these top schools could nail any algorithm interview with minimal preparation. But these big companies hire many more people than the…

> You can be guaranteed that the worst student from these top schools could nail any algorithm interview with minimal preparation.

Considering that CalTech offers this course, they must be realllyyyy misguided, or you’re talking about schools that are far more selective than CalTech (7% acceptance rate).

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#119
post #40

My career path in tech so far has been junior engineer -> mid level -> senior -> tech lead. As I've progressed through that path, I have had literally no opportunities of applying the stuff I've learnt on HackerRank, save for a couple of interviews. At this point I'm convinced that the focus of those interviews was entirely wrong. Once you pass those tests and get hired, you will be dealing with tons of legacy code r…

The reason this complaint never changes anything, despite being very popular, is that these interviews serve two purposes that it doesn’t address: 1) they’re an intelligence test; 2) they’re a perseverance/conscientiousness test.

Will you take the time and put in the work to pass one of these interviews? That measures perseverance and conscientiousness. Having put in the time, can you recall and adapt what you learned to perform complex tasks on a whiteboard in a stressful environment? That’s an intelligence test.

In combination, these criteria measure the famed, “smart and gets thing done” in a way that more practical lines of questioning might not. Or at least that’s the theory.

For the record, I’ve only interviewed at one FAANG company, got to the on-site interviews, did not get an offer (in case you think I’m secretly patting myself on the back here).

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#120
post #40

My career path in tech so far has been junior engineer -> mid level -> senior -> tech lead. As I've progressed through that path, I have had literally no opportunities of applying the stuff I've learnt on HackerRank, save for a couple of interviews. At this point I'm convinced that the focus of those interviews was entirely wrong. Once you pass those tests and get hired, you will be dealing with tons of legacy code r…

At least have empathy for your predecessors! How often have you chosen an architecture and stack to solve a problem only have the slow but constant shifting sands of managements' requirements completely undermine the foundation of what you've built, and been given no extra time to migrate and make it right instead of adding on another layer of shortsighted hacks?
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