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Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

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Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#111

Post by uwuemu »

kinduff wrote: post #96
freedomben wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was an early user and I've run into a couple of problems on mine, but Framework does a good job getting information out there and fixing things. Much better experience than I've had with other vendors where once it ships that's it.

That's what I'm seeing too, and I want to trust them. Can't wait for them to ship to my country, will order one for sure.

It's not about trust. They can have all good intentions in the world, but still fail. Because as Elon says: "The extreme difficulty of scaling production of new technology is not well understood. It’s 1000% to 10,000% harder than making a few prototypes. The machine that makes the machine is vastly harder than the machine itself."

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#112

Post by ashton314 »

earthscienceman wrote: post #86
ashton314 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, that's fair. I've got about runs ls -l | wc -l 143 packages that I load. My Emacs config is pretty heavy. I keep trying to trim it down a bit. Though, sometimes I have edit sessions that last several weeks, so it's not that bit a deal. But still.

Two things. Emacs as a daemon! And. Emacs 28 native compilation. Absolute game changer for speed in a million ways. Scrolling a 5000 line python source file with all the packages, syntax highlighting, etc etc, is buttery smooth: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GccEmacs

Yeah… I should probably set up the daemon sometime. I just tweak my config so much (it's Emacs, c'mon) that it's just been simpler for me for some reason to just launch it fresh for forever.

native-comp doesn't do anything for start up. Good tip though—I've been running bleeding-edge Emacs for a while now. ;-)

I ran `esup` and figured out most of the slowdown is from the otherwise excellent straight.el [1] package manager. I put

    (setq straight-check-for-modifications '(check-on-save find-when-checking))
in my init, and now everything is really speedy!

[1]: https://github.com/raxod502/straight.el#my-init-time-got-slo...

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#113

Post by netizen-936824 »

omdv wrote: post #17
aunty_helen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a point that people should remember if they're thinking about purchasing a framework. This is still very much beta hardware. The battery drain is annoying, it's around 30-50% per night depending on what addon cards you have. I've got a setup that puts it close to 40% per night so the laptop has to live on charger over night if I want to use it the next day. However, the thing that's really stopping me from us…

Anecdotal, so obviously YMMV. On battery - I am using "sleep then hibernate", which typically means 4-6% of battery drain overnight which happens while it is in first ~2hrs of sleep mode. Of course it means you now spend 30sec booting up, but I can live with that. On touchpad - weird, my experience is opposite. I'd say this is the closest to Macbook experience I had, no issues whatsoever. Speakers are a bit quiet, ag…

Genuine question here. I run gentoo on an NVMe drive and I have zero reason to use sleep or hibernate as my machine gets to the DE in under 30s.

What use cases are there that absolutely requires these features when boot times are so short?

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#114

Post by trelane »

rozab wrote: post #16
m6w6 wrote: post #2

I would be really tempted, but there are still a couple things putting me off: * Intel only * Windows only ... sorry boy and mum are arguing over homework -- gotta run!

At first this comment made me angry (it's Linux, the whole point is user choice, what would be the benefit in preinstalling!) - but I suppose System76 have really showed how much better things can be with Pop!_OS. I would expect the vast majority of users will be using Linux though, so calling it Windows only seems a little misleading. There is an option to get no OS and avoid the Windows tax.

I'd rather pay to add Linux support rather than skip the windows tax.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#115

Post by Macha »

causi wrote: post #31
aunty_helen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a point that people should remember if they're thinking about purchasing a framework. This is still very much beta hardware. The battery drain is annoying, it's around 30-50% per night depending on what addon cards you have. I've got a setup that puts it close to 40% per night so the laptop has to live on charger over night if I want to use it the next day. However, the thing that's really stopping me from us…

Yes, I'll be excited about version 2. Version 1 just has too many missed opportunities. For example, a single type-c bay could accommodate two type-A ports, or one port and one microsd reader. Wasting a whole one on a reader is dumb when most laptops just have one stuck somewhere. Give me a bay with a pop-out bluetooth mouse in it. Give me a non-chiclet keyboard and a touchpad with real buttons and a dGPU option and…

Another point in favour of version 2 is the timing that ended with them releasing with Intel 11th gen rather than Intel 12th gen or Zen 3/4 really is unfortunate. 11th gen Intel is not as much a gain from 8th gen Intel in power usage or performance as either 12th gen or zen3 are from 11th gen

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#116

Post by trelane »

imilk wrote: post #72
humanwhosits wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pre-install option for linux would increase user trust that it'll "just work"

People have been waiting for a Linux that "just works" for decades. And they'll probably still be waiting for the next 20 years. But that's not really the point of using Linux.

They have it now. The trick is to stop buying Windows hardware. Looks like this is just more of that rather than Linux (or just not broken) hardware.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#117

Post by charcircuit »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #113
omdv wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, so obviously YMMV. On battery - I am using "sleep then hibernate", which typically means 4-6% of battery drain overnight which happens while it is in first ~2hrs of sleep mode. Of course it means you now spend 30sec booting up, but I can live with that. On touchpad - weird, my experience is opposite. I'd say this is the closest to Macbook experience I had, no issues whatsoever. Speakers are a bit quiet, ag…

Genuine question here. I run gentoo on an NVMe drive and I have zero reason to use sleep or hibernate as my machine gets to the DE in under 30s. What use cases are there that absolutely requires these features when boot times are so short?

Sleep and hibernate are about persisting state and not about boot time. I don't want to spend time reopening everything and setting everything up when I come back to my computer. I just want to continue where I left off.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#118

Post by TranquilMarmot »

aunty_helen wrote: post #9
sudders wrote: post #6

Can't wait for framework laptop to run Linux/Ubuntu stable (without battery drain issues) Then I'll be switching all the developers in our company over to a new machine. (Currently running XPS 13, but we are due an upgrade, especially on memory)

This is a point that people should remember if they're thinking about purchasing a framework. This is still very much beta hardware. The battery drain is annoying, it's around 30-50% per night depending on what addon cards you have. I've got a setup that puts it close to 40% per night so the laptop has to live on charger over night if I want to use it the next day. However, the thing that's really stopping me from us…

??? I absolutely love the touchpad on the Framework. I think people got spoiled by Macbook touchpads- no, and I mean NO, Linux/Windows laptops out there have a comparable touchpad to the Macbook. What the Framework has is good for what's available. Honestly I don't mind tap-to-click vs. press-to-click.

I can agree that the speakers aren't stellar but that's something I don't care about on a laptop since I always have on headphones or I'm just using the speakers for video conferencing or something. Never experienced any background static when using headphones.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#119

Post by TranquilMarmot »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #113
omdv wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, so obviously YMMV. On battery - I am using "sleep then hibernate", which typically means 4-6% of battery drain overnight which happens while it is in first ~2hrs of sleep mode. Of course it means you now spend 30sec booting up, but I can live with that. On touchpad - weird, my experience is opposite. I'd say this is the closest to Macbook experience I had, no issues whatsoever. Speakers are a bit quiet, ag…

Genuine question here. I run gentoo on an NVMe drive and I have zero reason to use sleep or hibernate as my machine gets to the DE in under 30s. What use cases are there that absolutely requires these features when boot times are so short?

I'm also curious why people are so keen on needing a device to be powered on and ready to go within a second or two.

On my Framework (running Windows) I have it set up to hibernate when the lid closes to preserve battery. It takes about 10 seconds to get back into the desktop when I open the lid again. It's not like I'm opening/closing the lid dozens of times a day; I open it, work for a few hours, then close it. It's not like a phone where I power it on for a few seconds every hour or so to check notifications.

Re: Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world

#120

Post by phendrenad2 »

freedomben wrote: post #101
nikodunk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this an issue for Ubuntu specifically or all distributions? Read somewhere that they recommended Fedora 35 for the best driver support at the moment, though that'll probably change after the next releases of 22.04 and F36. Awesome that you're switching your whole team to Frameworks - my next work laptop will for sure be a Framework too :)

The main reason for this is that the drivers are in the kernel, and Fedora ships new kernels regularly. Ubuntu and many other distros will stay on the same version they initially ship with. For example if they start with 5.14.2 then even a couple years later it will be 5.14.86-200. Fedora tends to ship new major versions of the kernel within weeks of them being released upstream, so you're constantly getting bug fixe…

Linux laptop battery life issues are a constant, right? This has been a problem across laptop brands, across Linux distros, across many, many kernel versions. I just want to temper anyone's false expectations that they can just update from a 1-year-old kernel to one released last week and it'll fix these long-existing issues.
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