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Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

nytimes.com

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Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#111

Post by spywaregorilla »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #27
efitz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly did you get to “the cause of reckless driving is fat people who don’t walk everywhere?” Show your work. In most places in America walking is not a practical mode of transportation because of distance; it’s miles from your house to the grocery store, for instance. If you live in a city this might not be obvious to you but half the country lives in the burbs or rural areas. Separately, it would be nice if w…

> Separately, it would be nice if we had more sidewalks, but they are financially unsustainable in low density areas. What makes sidewalks expensive to maintain, relative to roads? > the biggest issue by far is dietary sugar/carbohydrates This is not clear. See this highly fascinating series on the obesity epidemic: https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/07/a-chemical-hunger-p... . Other suspects are HFCS and seed oil…

HFCS is basically sugar.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#112

Post by pwr-electronics »

gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

I briefly worked in one of the statistically worst states for bicycle safety, but I was still surprised to learn how many older people fantasized about running over cyclists, or had a "they probably deserved it" attitude whenever a cyclist was struck by a car.

One time, a couple of coworkers were riding single file in the generous shoulder of a wide nearly empty multi-lane road in the early morning when they were both run over from behind in a hit and run. One had to have his spine fused. I still saw the same attitude of contempt, even from coworkers who otherwise liked them.

I switched to mountain biking after that.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#113

Post by op00to »

burlesona wrote: post #32
gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

Moved to Austin during the pandemic, and my experience has been the same. It feels very dangerous to walk or bike anywhere, even in residential areas, because of the aggressive drivers. Even when I’m driving , the pervasive road rage here is much worse than anywhere else I’ve lived (including 3 other major cities). It’s been a real disappointment.

No post body was provided.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#114

Post by sillyquiet »

sillyquiet wrote: post #17
unicornfinder wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair I think the problem isn't just the people but how the roads and infrastructure is designed in the US. It's very anti-pedestrian.

Since pedestrian deaths are 'surging', its gotta be down to something that's changed, not a factor that's been constant all along, right?

My personal opinion is blaming a spike on a things that have not changed recently (car sizes, pedestrian friendliness of cities, human nature) is not logical:

The most likely candidates (again, in my opinion) are:

changes to driver psychology somehow due to the pandemic (empty roads, then full roads again, greater anxiety or stress related to traveling back and forth to work, or something like that)

changes in enforcement of driving laws (the protests of 2020 caused changes in police budget allocations or how police enforce minor laws like traffic laws OR staffing issues due to the pandemic with law enforcement agencies, or both)

A near universal change in how drivers are certified / licensed (could be due to changes in the pandemic or some other factor?)

OR this is a statistical fluke someone hooked onto and we are all drawing far-reaching conclusions from.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#115

Post by vetinari »

Aeolun wrote: post #66
efitz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly did you get to “the cause of reckless driving is fat people who don’t walk everywhere?” Show your work. In most places in America walking is not a practical mode of transportation because of distance; it’s miles from your house to the grocery store, for instance. If you live in a city this might not be obvious to you but half the country lives in the burbs or rural areas. Separately, it would be nice if w…

> it would be nice if we had more sidewalks, but they are financially unsustainable I call bullshit. The smallest 50 people village in the Netherlands has sidewalks. It’s not that it’s unsustainable, it’s that nobody wants to pay for it. Or that americans build too friggin big.

In Netherlands, if you throw a stone, you will hit a house in neighboring village. Not so in US.

(European here; but I've spent some time in US. You seriously underestimate the distances in US).

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#117

Post by ericmay »

syshum wrote: post #64
efitz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly did you get to “the cause of reckless driving is fat people who don’t walk everywhere?” Show your work. In most places in America walking is not a practical mode of transportation because of distance; it’s miles from your house to the grocery store, for instance. If you live in a city this might not be obvious to you but half the country lives in the burbs or rural areas. Separately, it would be nice if w…

I actively resist putting sidewalks in my neighborhood, and actively bought into this neighborhood because it lacks them Why? Because do not want to incur the costs of maintaining them, nor the liability that comes with them from either a city stand point, or injury standpoint If sidewalks where maintained by the city, including snow removal, and repairs, then maybe. but the fact is in most location they are an impos…

Rules for these things vary by state. Personally I view your take on cleaning sidewalks off of snow (again which vary by state) as really concerning and antisocial.

The other issue here is that you still pay for the roads, maintenance, police patrols, rest stops, expansion, environmental degradation, snow removal, insurance for cars, gas infrastructure, and all of those things related to roads but since you don’t get a specific bill in the mail with the line item for roads that you don’t think you’re paying for them or a huge cost for them. How much does it cost to have car accidents as the leading cause of death of teenagers? Who knows. But it’s gotta be more expensive than shoveling your sidewalk off.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#118

Post by notacoward »

gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

Framing your argument in terms of "fat people" weakens it considerably. There are plenty of lazy skinny people too, and the biggest problem is people's sense of entitlement. Pitting pedestrian/cyclist entitlement against driver entitlement is IMO less effective than treating transportation as a matter for sharing and cooperation instead of competition. As competition, non-drivers will always lose. And no, I don't think that's right, but the universe doesn't care what either of us thinks is right.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#119

Post by giantg2 »

masklinn wrote: post #82
efitz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly did you get to “the cause of reckless driving is fat people who don’t walk everywhere?” Show your work. In most places in America walking is not a practical mode of transportation because of distance; it’s miles from your house to the grocery store, for instance. If you live in a city this might not be obvious to you but half the country lives in the burbs or rural areas. Separately, it would be nice if w…

> Separately, it would be nice if we had more sidewalks, but they are financially unsustainable in low density areas. That is complete nonsense. Sidewalks are not a significant additional expense to the road it’s on, even at a much lower level of build quality / complexity require very little maintenance as the only damage is environmental (pedestrians and cyclists do 6 or 7 orders of magnitude less damage to the sur…

"Sidewalks are not a significant additional expense"

Depends on your definition of significant and sidewalk. It does add cost, so it's not insignificant (you can observe it with confidence). For states that are already struggling with infrastructure costs, it would not be feasible (look at PA and it's bridges).

Most states or municipalities actually have codes that the sidewalk has to follow. So it it's not legally possible to build something low quality. Technically a sidewalk doesn't have to be paved at all. In many places, you have a 3-6 foot right of way on the sides of the roads - aka a sidewalk - that does not have to be paved. This can vary by state and municipality though.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#120

Post by astura »

stirbot wrote: post #99

While this driver appears to be facing homicide by vehicle charges in addition to fleeing the scene, it is very common in the US for a driver to kill a pedestrian and face no criminal charges or loss of driving privileges as long as they stop and dial 911. While out walking I often think of a quote from a Freakomomics podcast that goes something like 'the best way to get away will killing someone in the US is to hit…

This guy is facing vehicular homicide charges because he was driving an unregistered not street legal ATV and fled the scene. Probably also because he has a history of motor vehicle infractions too.

If he were driving a legal registered pickup truck, and didn't flee (and wasn't impaired at the time) it would probably be a moving violation.

It also seems to me really rare that a hit-and-run driver is ever caught. It pains me to say it but it almost seems rational to flee the scene if you were drunk.

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