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Laravel 9

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Re: Laravel 9

#111

Post by XCSme »

unfocussed_mike wrote: post #105
XCSme wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> absolutely encourages bad practice Bad practice, as in security-wise, performance-wise, readability-wise, or something else? If you trust the developer to implement things properly (use PDO prepared statements when storing data in DB, properly check for permissions, write efficient queries, etc.), shouldn't that automatically exclude common bad practices? If the developer is inexperienced, can't they still implemen…

> If you trust the developer to implement things properly (use PDO prepared statements when storing data in DB, properly check for permissions, write efficient queries, etc.), shouldn't that automatically exclude common bad practices? That depends. How tired is the developer? How under pressure? How over deadline? ;-) I do get your point and I understand where you're coming from. But this model of PHP (where every UR…

I agree that writing secure PHP code is hard, but using a framework like Laravel, even if it has a single point of entry, makes it a lot more likely to introduce more security issues. When a framework is popular and open-source, people will spend a lot more resources trying to find and exploit vulnerabilities than in a custom private codebase: https://snyk.io/vuln/composer:laravel%2Fframework

Re: Laravel 9

#112

Post by yurishimo »

daveaiello wrote: post #20

Could somebody say, if you are planning to embark on a new Laravel project and you have no experience, how to begin? I bought a subscription to Laracasts, and there is a "What's New in Laravel 9" series. But "Laravel from Scratch" is still on 8.

I've onboarded plenty of people in the past couple of years to Laravel.

The changes from v5 -> v6 were the larger than most of the changes from v6 to now. Even then, those 5->6 changes weren't that bad.

You can follow along with Laracasts on v8 and upgrade to 9 when you're ready. It will be an easy transition.

Re: Laravel 9

#113

Post by deergomoo »

neals wrote: post #57

I've used Laravel on and off. But I always run into uncertainties when doing large refactorings. How are you doing large refactorings?

As with any dynamically typed language, good test coverage is important.

Re: Laravel 9

#114

Post by davejitsu »

TimWolla wrote: post #53
ivanhoe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO Laravel and Symfony are the best things that happened to PHP community since php5. PHP was an ugly mess of bad practices, fragmented into many outdated apps/frameworks and it was just exhausting to use. Symphony was a great improvement, but a bit too rigid and too enterprise-level for my taste. For me Laravel was honestly a breath of fresh air - finally I had something significantly more powerful than my custom…

Laravel definitely is everything, but light-weight. It's the slowest of the large names in PHP. see http://www.phpbenchmarks.com/en/comparator/framework or https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r20&hw=...

You’re posting benchmarks for versions that are now more than 7 years old

Re: Laravel 9

#115

Post by unfocussed_mike »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #70

Personally, I liked Laravel when I was first investigating it years ago, but was always a touch put off by the pervasive "I am beautiful, adore me" undercurrent throughout its design, documentation, and even comments. I'll be the first to admit that's not a rational critique. Having said that, though, Laravel is relatively unusual among major frameworks in that it doesn't seem to have been developed in tandem with a…

> but was always a touch put off by the pervasive "I am beautiful, adore me" undercurrent throughout its design, documentation, and even comments. I'll be the first to admit that's not a rational critique.

I should add, separately, that after a long career in web-development, this kind of reflexive emotional response strikes me as practically a survival instinct, so I am not judging you for it at all.

Re: Laravel 9

#116

Post by munk-a »

tnorthcutt wrote: post #104
munk-a wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to talk about potentially irrational reasons to be put off Laravel: when picking a framework I ended up going with Zend over Laravel mostly due to the modularity of the former... but also because the wide prevalence of Laracasts made me concerned that written documentation would be difficult to use and the documentation space of the framework would slowly migrate to being half-out-of-date video and audio…

FWIW that hasn't been my experience at all. The documentation is great and well maintained. The repo is public and you can see all changes here: https://github.com/laravel/docs

I made this decision about four years ago and while the documentation was well maintained at the time I was concerned that the Laracasts would be unmaintained and become a source of confusion that talked about no longer present features. I was mostly afraid about the primary problem with over-documentation: you're introducing a maintenance cost which, if you ever stop paying, ends up quickly causing more harm than never having had the documentation in the first place.

Here[1], for instance, is someone in this very response thread talking about how the core getting started Laracasts are out of date and they're confused which documentation they should reference. This will probably be addressed pretty soon (see the comment) but I think this is a very real danger with promising to deliver non-text based documentation.

1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30261801

Re: Laravel 9

#117

Post by chipotle_coyote »

tnorthcutt wrote: post #101
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #70

Personally, I liked Laravel when I was first investigating it years ago, but was always a touch put off by the pervasive "I am beautiful, adore me" undercurrent throughout its design, documentation, and even comments. I'll be the first to admit that's not a rational critique. Having said that, though, Laravel is relatively unusual among major frameworks in that it doesn't seem to have been developed in tandem with a…

Just for some context, here's how the items under "Ecosystem" on laravel.com break down on free vs. paid: Free: - Breeze - Cashier - Dusk - Echo - Horizon - Jetstream - Mix - Octane - Sail - Sanctum - Scout - Socialite - Telescope - Valet Paid: - Envoyer - Forge - Nova - Spark - Vapor

You left out Nova, which is also paid.

I don't want to come across as "nobody should give Laravel money," to be clear. I'm just observing that Laravel is essentially a commercial open-source enterprise in a way that Rails and Django aren't. Models like this seem to be a bit more common in the PHP world. (e.g., Sensio Labs makes their money by teaching and consulting on Symfony, Laravel LLC makes money from Laravel add-on services, but Basecamp makes money from the SaaS applications they're building on top of Rails and is not trying to monetize Rails itself.)

Re: Laravel 9

#118

Post by ceejayoz »

sibit wrote: post #31

Anyone know if/when they'll push these changes to their micro-framework Lumen ( https://lumen.laravel.com/ )?

My sense is Lumen's eventually going to go away, with the heavier built-in stuff moved into optional packages like the starter kits at https://laravel.com/docs/9.x/authentication#authentication-q....

Re: Laravel 9

#119

Post by unfocussed_mike »

tnorthcutt wrote: post #101
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #70

Personally, I liked Laravel when I was first investigating it years ago, but was always a touch put off by the pervasive "I am beautiful, adore me" undercurrent throughout its design, documentation, and even comments. I'll be the first to admit that's not a rational critique. Having said that, though, Laravel is relatively unusual among major frameworks in that it doesn't seem to have been developed in tandem with a…

Just for some context, here's how the items under "Ecosystem" on laravel.com break down on free vs. paid: Free: - Breeze - Cashier - Dusk - Echo - Horizon - Jetstream - Mix - Octane - Sail - Sanctum - Scout - Socialite - Telescope - Valet Paid: - Envoyer - Forge - Nova - Spark - Vapor

I've just realised that a) I've used precisely none of them, and b) Passport isn't even on the list!

I really do need to look at all of this stuff again, because I'm very open to not running my own VMs/services for a couple of apps.

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