Is there a market for a secure messaging app (similar to Signal) that does not rely on personally identifying information (phone numbers and emails) or is that too fringe?
Threema is around and well, though it's userbase is relatively small.
Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution
111–120 of 226 posts
Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Technically it is not very secure. It leaks the most interesting stuff (metadata). People think that only message content matters.
Didn't know leaking meta data was a requirement for most of the people ;-)
The most people don’t understand their own requirements. For example before Apple’s privacy features, Facebook (Meta) could try to guess the message contents with certain probablity based on other app usage. (Facebook trackers on different apps and cross-app tracking)
Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution
#113I'd argue that $5/month is quite high. Not because Signal isn't useful, but because the actual incurred cost per user is much, much lower. Of course, not everyone is going to pay. But if Signal were to ask users to pay, say $10 per year , i'm sure there'd be a lot more payers.
For what it is and how it contributes to me daily I don't believe it's high. $5/month for the peace of mind Signal provides is something I can make a case for. I subscribe to the $10/month level - because everyone in my circle uses it, and I pushed many of them in that direction. I want it to succeed, I want it to continue to improve, I want it to be available. I know I spend more than $10/month on other things that…
I get your argument but remember a lot of users aren't in the united states.
In India, Amazon prime is around $1.5/ month. Same $2.5 for Netflix mobile only basic plan.
My point is, $5/month might sound reasonable for most folk in the us but outside that, with purchasing power greatly reduced to a factor of 1:80 for example with India and USA conversion rate, these sound very expensive.
So my question is, should I pay netflix the privilege to enable me to not pirate because its easier or pay double to signal for something like matrix can give for free or self hosted at my own cost?
I don't pay for any of the said services because I find those prices too much so there is no way I could be bothered to use signal and pay for it.
I would rather set up a matrix server at a lowendbox vps, pay for annual subscription and get all my friends over. I pay for fun of learning about stuff, managing it and knowing I control the data
Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why? If someone wants to use a phone number for their identifier, fine. But make it optional. If I join Signal with another alias (free-form string perhaps) then they could just add me via that. Not really harder than using my phone number.
> Why? If someone wants to use a phone number for their identifier, fine. But make it optional Network effects. If you’re only findable via custom handle versus the phone number your network already has, you’ve reduced the network’s value to your contacts. Put another way, if I join a messaging service and it says two of my contacts are on it (but many more may be), that’s close to a non-starter.
I'm fine with people not finding me automatically. If Signal wants to keep the low-resistance method of bulk-checking your contact's phone numbers, fine. Just give me the choice of joining without it.
Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution
#115I know I got to start learning to pay if I don't want to end up with another FB or GOOG in the future. $5/month for a communication app, that is in essence a daily driver, is reasonable for most European/North America users. Having said that, no-one in my circle uses Signal :/
I decided a few years ago that Signal was the closest thing to a good cross-platform messaging client that mortals could be expected to use. I sent an email to my most frequently texted contacts asking them to consider installing it and using it.
It’s not a huge cross-section of my friends and family that uses it, but I message a portion of my social network graph every day.
Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
The phone number requirement is the only thing making Signal remotely close to usable for the wider public. Similarly, non-phone messaging is niche in the extreme. Unusable software is not an ally of user freedom. The actual problem with Signal is that they took US State Department funding. That doesn't mean it's an op necessarily, but suspicious nonetheless.
Why? If someone wants to use a phone number for their identifier, fine. But make it optional. If I join Signal with another alias (free-form string perhaps) then they could just add me via that. Not really harder than using my phone number.
And insane spam follows.
Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why? If someone wants to use a phone number for their identifier, fine. But make it optional Network effects. If you’re only findable via custom handle versus the phone number your network already has, you’ve reduced the network’s value to your contacts. Put another way, if I join a messaging service and it says two of my contacts are on it (but many more may be), that’s close to a non-starter.
I'm fine with people not finding me automatically. If Signal wants to keep the low-resistance method of bulk-checking your contact's phone numbers, fine. Just give me the choice of joining without it.
> fine with people not finding me automatically
That’s a private gain at the network’s cost. For a challenger, their decision to bar that albeit limited form of free-riding is perfectly rational. For a dominant network, I am much more sympathetic to the call for anonymity.
Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution
#118[deleted]
Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
That’s partly why I donate. If they get direct funds they’re hopefully less likely to turn to these scammy cryptocoins to keep the lights on
I just don't get all the hate for cryptocurrencies around here. I benefit from using both Brave and Signal without being subjected to (scammy) adverts, and I just ignore the cryptocurrencies (you can too!!).. For people who are willing to take the risks with MobileCoin and the like, why not give them that choice?
> why not give them that choice?
That’s fine. But don’t ask me for donations on top. Sending donation dollars to fund developers pumping a coin is a strange use of resources.
Re: Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Facebook (Meta) is still the biggest competitor. WhatsApp, Facebook and Instagram DMs.
WhatsApp is subsidized by Facebook. Threema is a better comparison. They offer a commercial, ad-free product with E2E for a one-time fee of 3.99€ in the iOS app store. They also don't sell your address book or other data. They don't even have your phone number.
That part about YOUR phone number that Apple will not have must be a lie.
If you head over to the Apple App store and pull up Threema privacy policy:
Threema has your CONTACT INFO identifiable to you, if you installed their app.
And I don’t know many people who wont put the phone number down for its contact info.