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The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

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Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#111
post #71

I once hired a guy who had no experience, but seemed like a good culture fit for our company and seemed very interested in learning. We interviewed him and made e-mail communication a large part of the interview, because it is a critical part of our business. And his communication was great! After hiring, a recurring problem we had was his e-mail to us and to customers were terrible. Bad grammar, bad spelling, uncorr…

That sounds to me like it would meet the legal definition of fraud. A lawsuit to recuperate the wages and damage to the business might even be worth looking into.

> A lawsuit to recuperate the wages and damage to the business might even be worth looking into.

No, probably not. Speak to any business owner who has been in a lawsuit and they'll likely tell you it's not worth the headache. A close relative told me that even if a customer straight up won't pay for a done job, he'd rather forgo the payment then deal with a lawsuit.

Lawsuits usually have:

1) monetary costs - those lawyers are very expensive

2) emotional costs - take a big mental toll to deal with

3) reputational costs - it goes in the public record. Next time a potential candidate googles your company, it might show up that you sued a former employee. Hopefully they read further to see if you were justified in doing so....

4) opportunity costs - you (hopefully) have better things to do with your time

If you are big enough, maybe you have a legal team to deal with this stuff. But even then, you have to choose your battles. A hired lawyer is still expensive and it's not worth going after small battles, even the ones you know you will win.

Also, as others have mentioned, it's not unreasonable to have a friend or relative look over your email communications during your interview process unless you were explicitly asked not to do so. In fact, it's a smart idea!

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#112
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We were a Linux System Administration consultancy. The product wasn't the e-mails, but nearly everything we did for our clients was designed/planned, scheduled, organized, and documented in e-mail. Yes, sometimes we would work on things with the client on the phone, those were usually followed up with an e-mail about what was done. These e-mails were copied to our internal mailing lists so that they could be peer rev…

Ok, thanks. All my Linux skills (which weren't many to begin with) are basically gone since it's all cloud now.

What's running in the cloud if not Linux?

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> marital status ... is not a protected class.

https://www.eeoc.gov/pre-employment-inquiries-and-marital-st...

Still not a protected class, which means the bar for proving discrimination is going to be pretty high. Especially if it happens after you've been hired.

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#114

I've been a hiring manager for remote positions for a long time. If your recruiting channels are good, most of your candidates are going to be honest and good intentioned. But interview enough people, and you'll start encountering people trying to abuse remote work. They're not interested in contributing to your company. They're only interested in collecting paychecks while they do as little work as possible for as l…

>Always makes me wonder how many dysfunctional companies are out there letting deadbeat remote employees collect paychecks and do as little work as possible because nobody cares enough to press the issue.

Probably the vast majority of companies! If you ever get an employee like this as a direct report and try to do something about it, the process is incredibly draining and shitty. Easily the worst I've felt about work in my career (so far!). I see why people try to ignore the issue, but it also feels pretty bad having your other team members constantly pick up the slack around a non-performing team member.

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#115
We once had a contractor who interviewed pretty well. After a while I noticed that it was impossible to have a technical discussion with him. He only took notes and never said much. I also noticed that he never delivered anything the same day. He took notes and then next morning it was done. I once told him to fix a simple bug NOW and had him sit next to me. He starred at the screen for several hours and did nothing. And not unsurprisingly it was done the next day. We came to the conclusion that he had a ghostwriter somewhere else who would do the actual work from the contractor’s notes.

Problem was that the ghostwriter was not a great dev either and wrote bad code. So we had to let him /them go. The contractor is now a principal developer/ team lead at another company……

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#116
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, thanks. All my Linux skills (which weren't many to begin with) are basically gone since it's all cloud now.

What's running in the cloud if not Linux?

If you run "serverless" It's all hidden from you.

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#118

I once hired a guy who had no experience, but seemed like a good culture fit for our company and seemed very interested in learning. We interviewed him and made e-mail communication a large part of the interview, because it is a critical part of our business. And his communication was great! After hiring, a recurring problem we had was his e-mail to us and to customers were terrible. Bad grammar, bad spelling, uncorr…

> "My wife wrote all of those."

There was a place that hired a consultant for a project a friend worked on, and she was... I don't think she could write code at all. Like, had trouble manually inserting fragments into an XML file despite fragments with the same structure already being in the file.

Her productivity skyrocketed at night however, and she generally had working code in the morning, which lead to rumors that her husband or someone in her home country was doing the work (would have been daytime over there). Nobody really complained. She wore a hijab and the company had just hired it’s first “diversity officer” so maybe that’s why. Thankfully they stopped using that vendor not long after.

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#119
Very common with overseas contractors. Often the person communicating has good English skills, but they swap in a friend etc for the actual work.

In some cases fine (you'll actually get both of them to eventually show up on calls together with some random excuse). Other times less fine (basically a scam).

Re: The new hire who showed up is not the same person we interviewed

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.eeoc.gov/pre-employment-inquiries-and-marital-st...

Still not a protected class, which means the bar for proving discrimination is going to be pretty high. Especially if it happens after you've been hired.

If your martial status is documented as being considered in the thought process leading to firing (I know now, they quit in this case), then it can show that the hiring process was discriminating. It's a possible court case, although the outcome would be anyone's guess (if they they don't settle).
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