Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 235 posts

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#111

Post by aaomidi »

gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

Free speech? On a platform that is explicitly designed for profit? Despite knowing the story about how wealth and money works and how class mobility is essentially non existent?

Americans and American-lite people have just adopted this weird view on free speech that doesn't really make sense when you actually realize it's all about wealth and money.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#112

Post by pseudalopex »

eej71 wrote: post #105
pseudalopex wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What evidence is there Young or Mitchell would deny Rogan the right to pull his podcast from any platform with their music?

None. But no one is making that claim.

> None. But no one is making that claim.

They did.

> But, I will never stand behind people wanting to deny him the exact rights they're exercising. Young and others are doing exactly that.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#113

Post by zapataband1 »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #57
unfocussed_mike wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean in the interests of free speech, artists who you think have an inflated sense of their own importance should necessarily sacrifice their freedom of speech for someone who is parroting dangerous untruths? Pulling their music from Spotify is speech. Why can they _not_ do it? What makes what they are doing a "horrible precedent"?

It's a bit of tolerance paradox, in order to protect free speech we should avoid the free speech that want to censor others, otherwise we all lose the right. So of course pulling their music is their right, but it stops being acceptable when they pull their rights in order to prevent others from speaking. I am of the idea that we must tolerate free speech up to the point where this free speech is used to prevent othe…

This isnt a free speech issue. Neil Young is not the government nor is spotify. If Neil Young didn't want to be on the same tv show as joe rogan nobody would care. This amounts to the exact same thing.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#114

Post by ch4s3 »

zzzeek wrote: post #89
gonehome wrote: post #26

Based on the recent Stratechery Neil Young advocates against GMOs which is the “anti-science” position on that issue. I think independent of my views on Rogan personally this kind of ultimatum to silence someone is just wrong. The free speech position is the principled one. Spotify wouldn’t be in this position if they weren’t trying to aggregate podcast ownership and ruin the open ecosystem anyway. Still, if I were S…

Neil Young doesn't have a GMO podcast nor any kind of political show on Spotify, nor is opposition to GMO technology an immediate grave threat to public health. Your point is completely irrelevant.

> nor is opposition to GMO technology an immediate grave threat to public health

GMO panic is at the heart of a lot of COVID vaccine refusal, so I think it at least has a somewhat negative effect on public health.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#115

Post by javajosh »

unpopular42 wrote: post #83
porcoda wrote: post #4

This is why I still buy music I like - either physical media, or DRM-free files I can archive away. It's more expensive and labor intensive to manage, but at least I don't have to worry about my music ever vanishing for one reason or another. Things like Spotify are useful for discovering new stuff, but I sort of like knowing that stuff I like will always be available for me to enjoy regardless of what's going on amo…

It's not going to help much though. People like that will also try bullying sellers into not selling stuff by someone who says or believes something they don't like. Sure, you can still enjoy what you've already got, but good luck getting anything new from your favourite artist.

That makes no sense. Its hard to say how much its going to help - today's fringe trend can easily get "hot". Look at vinyl record consumption, which dipped for decades and then came back with a vengeance. Plus, if even a 10% of a fanbase switches to traditional media, I bet that would have an impact on the artists bottom line. And anyway, it's a good thing to do regardless for all the reasons people have mentioned (I buy physical media myself, mostly on discogs, alibris, and sometimes ebay. sadly there are no record stores in my area anymore).

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#116

Post by zapataband1 »

throwawaysea wrote: post #102
spaceisballer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. People can’t take a stance? I think it’s well within their right to pull their music for what they believe in.

Within their legal rights? Sure. But they are advocating for others to be silenced in the same breath, not just silently pulling their content. In other words, they are using power (financial power, celebrity influence) to silence others. That is incompatible with the ideas underlying a classically liberal free society.

Sorry Neil Young isn't the all powerful boogeyman that you think he is. He isn't censoring joe rogan because he doesn't have that power.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#117

Post by mulmen »

throwawayboise wrote: post #65
mulmen wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young and Mitchell pulling their music is literally freedom of speech (free expression). Neil Young can do whatever he wants with his content (speech), just like Rogan. This is competition in the free marketplace of ideas. You're absolutely entitled to your opinion on these actions and you're free to support Spotify or Young or Mitchell or any combination of the three. But there is no "freedom of speech" side here.

Yes there is. Young and Mitchell should argue their position on its merits, not throw a hissy fit and take their toys and go home.

They are arguing their position on its merits. This case is being tried in the court of public opinion.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#118

Post by kondro »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #77
kennywinker wrote: post #12

I switched to Tidal last year. Spotify is notoriously one of the worst streaming services in terms of what it pays artists, and then there was this: https://themusicessentials.com/news/daniel-ek-e100-million-i... (spotify ceo investing in AI weapons company). While Tidal’s app is a little rough around the edges, and their auto-playlist stuff isn’t quite as smart, it has a solid catalogue and i’m pretty happy with it.

Is it worth getting Tidal if I primarily listen with AirPods? I've heard that Bluetooth decreases audio quality, so that would negate any benefit of the lossless music Tidal provides.

You don't need to buy the lossless plan.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#119

Post by lnxg33k1 »

zapataband1 wrote: post #113
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of tolerance paradox, in order to protect free speech we should avoid the free speech that want to censor others, otherwise we all lose the right. So of course pulling their music is their right, but it stops being acceptable when they pull their rights in order to prevent others from speaking. I am of the idea that we must tolerate free speech up to the point where this free speech is used to prevent othe…

This isnt a free speech issue. Neil Young is not the government nor is spotify. If Neil Young didn't want to be on the same tv show as joe rogan nobody would care. This amounts to the exact same thing.

I don't believe that free speech only applies to governments, free speech also applies to the general population, also because we don't elect toasters and coffee machines to governments, and elected people have the power to change regulations and amendments, so I feel like attack on free speech need to be fought starting from our neighbours

About Neil Young not being willing to participate along with other people, I would appreciate more Neil Young to go to participate with people and counter-argumenting their ideas with words, instead of being a little kid acting like "Gne gne gne I don't want to talk to you, teacher please can you send him out of the class?", I mean we're adult and capable of expressing complex ideas and counter-arguments, there's no need to running away, imho, but he's free all he wants to be a kid, just let's not consider him a paladine of anything

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#120

Post by mulmen »

gonehome wrote: post #103
mulmen wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't they? Forget the names and the details of this situation for a moment. Spotify is a business that offers a catalog of content for a fee. Their value proposition is that they provide content people want to consume. Perhaps some content has fallen out of favor for some reason. Could be objectionable or just stale, public opinion is always shifting. If someone with more appealing content comes along and sa…

Well in this specific case a couple of easy reasons. Rogan’s deal was $100M which is way more money than Young. So if it’s a business move than keeping Rogan is the obvious choice as he provides way more value to Spotify. I care less about that though and more about the principled position here. In this case I think they’re the same.

And I don't think your principles are sound. We are also participating in a marketplace of ideas. I'm not buying what you are selling. You are free to continue as you are, as am I.
Post reply on HN