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Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

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Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#111

Post by falcolas »

ryandrake wrote: post #98
monkmartinez wrote: post #79

I can tell you as a first responder, it doesn't matter. The "vaccine" is a damn joke. I am F**ing exhausted this morning, and I don't care anymore. We are being run in the ground across the country with people quitting left and right. Fake vaccine cards are the least of our worries. You heard it here first. The emergency medical system is in deep trouble for way too many reasons to enumerate here. Anecdote time; I re…

I think we are going to find, when the dust settles and this whole era gets studied, that we pinned way too much hope on vaccines and masks and way, WAAY too little was invested in 1. Overall health / Not being obese, 2. General hygiene and staying home when sick, and 3. Avoiding crowds and indoor gatherings. And I say this as one of HN’s huge and unashamed vaccine cheerleaders. Everyone wants that easy pill (or shot…

If we couldn't get people to wear masks in public regularly, how can we expect them to make an even more significant and life impacting change that could better their health?

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#112

Post by epakai »

mathwords wrote: post #31
torstenvl wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Requiring vaccine passports or vaccine cards incentivizes people to get vaccine passports and/or vaccine cards , which is exactly what we're seeing. This is like counting lines of code or repo commits to see how productive a SWE is. If you want to incentivize X , you have to be very careful not to instead incentivize an imperfect proxy for X .

Same with the tests. All it says is that the test said positive or negative. It in no way tells you anything about how bad your Covid is, how far along it is, and if you can spread it to others. The tests are a last minute cash grab. Stop getting tested and this thing ends. (However I know a bunch of folks who have to be tested anyway because they didn’t want to be boosted, despite getting the initial vax)

Absurd. "Stop going to the hospital and this thing ends" is on the same level. Cash flow has nothing to do with virus spread. It's interesting to consider misaligned incentives but you are alleging something much more serious without giving any credence to the actual purpose of testing.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#113

Post by kube-system »

errcorrectcode wrote: post #105
monkmartinez wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are not different. I can assure you that we don't run many 911 calls on gym rats, runners, cyclists and hikers... unless they have injured themselves doing said activities. Drunk idiots and Obese people are the overwhelming majority of our calls.

Denying healthcare to those who don't take of themselves is a necessary evil to avoid the burden of freedumbs. The obese also experience disproportionately more classic hits including diabetes, amputations, falls, strokes, heart attacks, and cancers. Speaking of drunk idiots: from my vantage, I regularly see more than one rider piled on a Lime scooter in the middle of the street in nightclub traffic. Organ donors? Na…

Denying healthcare to people who need immediate emergency care is immoral -- so much so that it's one of the few things that even US law forces hospitals to do.

I think it is significantly more of a moral issue to punish people by letting them die in the street than it is a moral problem to require adherence to public health standards to eat in a restaurant.

Applied to any other public health concern, this suggestion would be silly. Should we deny people treatment for food poisoning if they want the freedom to break food-safety rules at a restaurant? Should we deny treatment to a traffic accident victim if they were speeding?

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#114

Post by danillonunes »

kube-system wrote: post #101
SnowProblem wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the worst gimmick - Krispy Kreme donuts - when we know the vast majority of deaths are in the overweight. These are tricks for monkeys. And a reminder how little they think of you. You know what would have worked? Maybe a little honesty. Maybe treating people as adults and not constantly lying to them, from masks, to virus origin, natural immunity, vaccine risks, and especially treatments. People aren't…

The problem is that people think they've been lied to when they largely haven't. They've missed all of the nuance because they're looking for absolutes. Science is nuanced and politics is crude. None of those topics you list are dichotomic in nature, yet our political discussions nevertheless dilute them as such.

I remember in 2020 at the very beginning when people started to panic buy toilet papers, I read something about WHO saying masks should not be recommended to general public to avoid shortage for health professionals. They meant well, but what I saw at the time was a lot of media outlets turning this message into how masks are bad, innefective, and using one in public is the equivalent of wearing a tinfoil hat. This lasted less than a month, but I wonder how much this helped with the "the media is lying to us" sentiment.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#115

Post by kube-system »

danillonunes wrote: post #114
kube-system wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that people think they've been lied to when they largely haven't. They've missed all of the nuance because they're looking for absolutes. Science is nuanced and politics is crude. None of those topics you list are dichotomic in nature, yet our political discussions nevertheless dilute them as such.

I remember in 2020 at the very beginning when people started to panic buy toilet papers, I read something about WHO saying masks should not be recommended to general public to avoid shortage for health professionals. They meant well, but what I saw at the time was a lot of media outlets turning this message into how masks are bad, innefective, and using one in public is the equivalent of wearing a tinfoil hat. This l…

The same exact thing later happened with vaccines. They were tested to be effective at significantly reducing the severity of illness and death. Public discourse diluted this to "vaccines prevent covid", and then when people got breakthrough cases, some started claiming they "don't work because you can get it anyway".

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#116

Post by mizzack »

errcorrectcode wrote: post #107
TameAntelope wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and the easiest way, by far, to get a vaccine passport/card is to get vaccinated... Besides, people don't like to lie if they can avoid it. Being honest and getting a vaccine card by getting a vaccine is what most people will do. If it's 10-12% such as the YouGov poll suggests, that feels in line with "Who are the assholes in our society?" Most people aren't like that.

The problem is the cards lack security features and an electronic verification mechanism. They should've thought about fakes before rolling them out.

And now you know what this article is a pretext for.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#117

Post by yucky »

slg wrote: post #99
buscoquadnary wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is interesting you say that because the first notice I saw of it starting to get politicized was people calling Trump racist for attempting to placing a travel ban from/to China, and for using the phrase China virus, when there is a decent history of naming diseases from where they came from. I think in fact your link attests to that because it's not saying anything about COVID it is all about how Trump is being r…

>It is interesting you say that because the first notice I saw of it starting to get politicized was people calling Trump racist for attempting to placing a travel ban from/to China, Trump has a history of xenophobia. The China ban was viewed as a second Muslim ban. It also appeared to be disconnected from the facts at the time because it was neither a full ban and was only singling out China. So it was clearly going…

>The China ban was viewed as a second Muslim ban.

...which was also misrepresented in the media. They literally used the same countries the Obama Administration had put on their list with the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015.[1]

Also, the majority of countries on the list weren't Muslim, and the majority of Muslim countries weren't on the list.

[1] https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2017/01/29/news-bull...

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#118

Post by yucky »

codyb wrote: post #42
hammock wrote: post #2

Is it really a public health nightmare? What data is there to show that vaccine passports are effective at reducing spread or hospitalizations?

I for one really enjoy the vaccine mandate in NYC. I feel much more comfortable knowing that if I catch it going out (seems likely), I'll be unlikely to spread it to anyone unvaccinated causing serious disease. Of course I'm also boosted and got my flu shot (and do it every year), so I'm probably already more conscientious living in NYC than many. If someone uses a fake to get in... well... there's only so much I can…

Except your feeling of safety is leading you to be more likely to get it, and when you get it you are very likely to spread it. So a vaccine passport for a leaky vaccine like this one, likely does more harm than good.

This is why everyone reading this can attest to the fact that they know more people infected in the last 2 months (most of whom were vaccinated) than the entire rest of the pandemic.

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#119

Post by archagon »

monkmartinez wrote: post #79

I can tell you as a first responder, it doesn't matter. The "vaccine" is a damn joke. I am F**ing exhausted this morning, and I don't care anymore. We are being run in the ground across the country with people quitting left and right. Fake vaccine cards are the least of our worries. You heard it here first. The emergency medical system is in deep trouble for way too many reasons to enumerate here. Anecdote time; I re…

Where is the anger directed, exactly? On r/nursing, the general consensus is that practically nobody who's vaccinated and boosted is actually dying, unless they have a lot of other stuff going on: https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/s5p4g1/how_many_fu...

It seems disingenuous to call the vaccine a "damn joke".

Re: Fake vaccine cards are everywhere. It’s a public health nightmare

#120

Post by pandaman »

falcolas wrote: post #110
slg wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I am taking crazy pills the way that many on HN constantly seem to imply that the polarization and politicization of the pandemic was caused by the media, scientists, public health officials or anyone else but the last president and many people in his administration. They were immediately trying to shift blame to anyone but themselves. It was the "China virus" from pretty much day 1. He was literally cros…

Imagine, for a moment, the change in reactions had Trump & company declared a "War on Covid". We love wars. A vast majority of Americans have historically gotten behind wars. Wars on drugs. Wars on terror. I dunno how things would have turned out, but it makes me wonder.

I can imagine how every TV comedian would have had a recurring "War against common cold" segment, CNN had a ticker with the current economic damage from lockdowns, ACLU suing against mask mandates in every court and FB/Google/Twitter censoring everyone who dared to doubt that chicken soup does really cure viral infections.
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