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Open-Sourcing our Firmware

frame.work

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Re: Open-Sourcing our Firmware

#111

Post by throwaway2568 »

dheera wrote: post #57
rnk wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems too good to be true. Reasonable prices, upgradable, no soldered ram. So has it been a reliable Linux laptop, what's the battery life with your options?

I've been using a Framework laptop for a month on Ubuntu 21.10 and pretty happy with it. Some hiccups but mostly answered by digging through forums. Battery life in operation is excellent, but it does drain 30% in 8 hours when on suspend which is a bit much. Not a dealbreaker but hope this can be solved.

High battery drain during standby on Linux can be due to the system not entering the proper sleep state. I had this happen to me on an AMD machine lately, in that case disabling secure boot solved the issue.

Here is a pretty detailed blog post in checking if that is the problem and how to deal with it on intel systems

https://01.org/blogs/qwang59/2018/how-achieve-s0ix-states-li...

Re: Open-Sourcing our Firmware

#112

Post by kilburn »

zild3d wrote: post #69
redthrow wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, it's a bad practice to associate flags with languages There's even a website for this issue http://www.flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog/why-flags-do-not-re...

Don't think the site is going against these. It says "Choose Location and Language" and offers for example: - :us-flag: United States [USD] - :ca-flag: Canada (English) [CAD]

The issue there is that "being in country X" and "wanting to see the site in language Y" is going to be against some users' preferences. Examples:

- Canadians from Quebec may prefer the site in french (but use CAD as a currency and see Canada's taxes where relevant).

- Expats in Thailand very much prefer to use the site in English.

- I'm in Spain and my browser is setup to reflect my preferences (Catalan first, English if that's not available, Spanish last). I prefer English to Spanish because international companies either have a strong presence here (and will probably have Catalan as an option) or their Spanish translation will be worse than the original language in English which I understand better than low effort translations.

Frame.work is going for a locale selector but they don't even support all the official locales of the regions they already operate in (e.g.: they don't support fr_CA). Even if they did, there are always users that would prefer a "non-official" localization (en_TH, en_ES following my examples above).

In the end they would be much better off letting users pick the language, region and currency separately. It's less effort from their part and a better solution for the users.

In that case, flags for languages are bad and flags for regions are fine but can still rub against some users' feelings. Example: pro-independence Scots having to pick the UK flag. Is it really that terrible to have auto-complete and/or select fields for these 3 things?

Re: Open-Sourcing our Firmware

#113

Post by 3np »

schleck8 wrote: post #109
3np wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. I can be present in Germany and want my laptop delivered there. That does not mean I speak a word of German. Language and physical location are disjoint. Even worse when I know the original content is in English, my preferred language, but someone decides I only deserve the partial translation.

You can switch the region then, it takes 3 seconds and persists across visits.

Sure, and now I can not select shipping destination "Germany" anymore, as somehow it's an impossibility to match the existing language contents and shipping destinations...

This is such a frustrating trend. Google has already been mentioned as an offender - it is an annoying procedure to keep resetting the language for every fresh session - but at least their texts are mostly properly translated... Going to the Amazon site of my country (a smaller one where I am a native speaker of the language and most but not all products listing are machine-translated), I have to constantly change my language preferences to get the non-machine-translated version of various texts, as "prefer original language" doesn't seem to be a thing. Some things are just so hilariously wrong that doing this is the only way to make sense of everything.

Oh, and they (framework) also force the currency tied to the nation. My credit card is not necessarily in the native currency of either my shipping destination or my preferred language. Just let us set all three independently, please :/

aliexpress and iherb are two sites that do this right.

Re: Open-Sourcing our Firmware

#114

Post by smasher164 »

TallonRain wrote: post #96
smasher164 wrote: post #41

I've been running NixOS on my Framework for the last few months, and I've been really happy with it. I initially got it so I'd have viable hardware to do osdev on, so learning that they are going to open-source its firmware makes me even more happy.

I'm curious what the build quality is like. I've heard some complaints about QA and reliability issues with the hardware, but I don't know anyone in person who owns one of these devices. What has your experience been like?

I haven't had any hardware issues tbh. The only thing I would say is that the fans kick in pretty loud when doing anything remotely intensive. Even battery life has been fine, compared to my old Macbook Air. I've had to put in some work configuring drivers, since they're so new that they haven't landed in the distros yet. But NixOS makes that easy, so that's about it.

Re: Open-Sourcing our Firmware

#115

Post by polar »

laputan_machine wrote: post #108
redthrow wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, it's a bad practice to associate flags with languages There's even a website for this issue http://www.flagsarenotlanguages.com/blog/why-flags-do-not-re...

Disagree, examples in the blog are poo. English comes from... England... why shouldn't be represented with an English flag? Spainish comes from... Spain... why shouldn't be represented with a Spanish flag? There are Spanish speakers in literally every country in the world, what is the solution? The Hindi argument is not good, Hindi is the _official_ language of India. I work with people from various parts of India an…

> Hindu is the _official_ language of India

Hindi, not Hindu. Also, Hindi is not the only official language of India.

Re: Open-Sourcing our Firmware

#116

Post by mjg59 »

nrp wrote: post #73
mjg59 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you planning to ship systems that don't have Boot Guard enforcement enabled? I've done a couple of Coreboot ports (I'm typing from a laptop that's running my build) and the Framework is an extremely interesting target, but if Boot Guard is turned on then that becomes pretty difficult.

We haven't finalized our plans around this, but one path we have explored is a signed shim loader.

Ah, so a signed firmware bootblock that runs something user signed? I wrote the original version of the boot Shim that Linux distros use for bridging from the Microsoft root of trust to the distro one, so let me know if there's any way I can help out here.

Re: Open-Sourcing our Firmware

#117

Post by [deleted] »

lillecarl wrote: post #100
_zooted wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having come from elementaryOS I can say that Fedora 35 is awesome. So much better!

Having come from Debian, Ubuntu, and Manjaro I settled on what feels like the last distro I will use on my own systems: NixOS. It's not so much better, it's so much different. Every(ish) single package, every single line of configuration(ish) is under version control in a(couple) nix files. I share (most) of it between my systems. With flakes (and it's lockfile) it's a 100%(ish) deterministic system. Downside: The la…

[deleted]

Re: Open-Sourcing our Firmware

#118

Post by sva_ »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #110
rnk wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems too good to be true. Reasonable prices, upgradable, no soldered ram. So has it been a reliable Linux laptop, what's the battery life with your options?

From what I've heard battery life is much worse on Linux than Windows. If you're willing to spend some time hacking around you can close the gap a bit, but it'll still be a gap.

Personally I can't confirm this. I've recently replaced the battery on my 2014 Thinkpad, and on low brightness I get around 8h of battery. That is of course, while not doing a lot of compute (compiling).

I don't think this was much higher, back when I used Windows all those years ago, so I'm not sure what people are saying with low battery with Linux? I don't see how Windows could get me much more? And why would it?

Re: Open-Sourcing our Firmware

#119

Post by aquova »

sneak wrote: post #99
rnk wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems too good to be true. Reasonable prices, upgradable, no soldered ram. So has it been a reliable Linux laptop, what's the battery life with your options?

The screen is very low-res and the GPU is weak. This is why I don't have one. If you don't care about pixels (seems common in PC-land), this is probably a good thing re: power consumption. I look at text all day, every day, and want it to be high res. It's been high res on my Macs for half a decade, and my XPS is even better. I'll get one of these once they fix the screen.

The Framework has a 200 DPI screen. It's lower than say a MacBook, but I wouldn't consider that to be "low-res", especially in the laptop space.

Re: Open-Sourcing our Firmware

#120

Post by temp12913231 »

dheera wrote: post #48
brightball wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, it’s always a struggle. UI wise it clearly looks better to use flags and people know what it’s for when they see it. There’s always people who complain about it though. I’m of the opinion to not worry about it and just use the flags. It’s enough effort to properly internationalize a site and keep it maintained. That it’s available at all is a huge effort. Debating flags vs a drop down with languages is nitpickin…

With flags you also have the issue of how to represent politically disputed regions e.g. Taiwan even when the languages used locally are pretty clear-cut. In the specific case of Taiwan, if you want to maintain good business relations with normal civilians on both sides of the straits you need to represent Taiwan as a state to Mainland China IPs and represent it as a country to Taiwanese IPs and most of the rest of t…

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