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How to quit like a boss

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Re: How to quit like a boss

#111

Post by bavila »

BeetleB wrote: post #77
jamesbrady wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should read: "How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit" Touché, yes there's some truth to this. Many of the points in the post were reflections on people leaving my team as I have an order of magnitude more examples of that than me leaving a team. If you're implying there's some kind of zero-sum thing going on here though, I disagree: it can be good for both you and your boss. > I wonder what their world view is… I…

> Ah, no – this is in the "Don’t sabotage, it’s a dick move" section: it's sabotage which is unethical. I guess the source of the confusion is that you didn't specify what the sabotage actually is. I mean, deleting all your code before leaving is sabotage. Leaving without notice isn't. What did you have in mind when you wrote that? > I don't quite follow this paragraph, could you rephrase? I was highlighting a bunch…

> I guess the source of the confusion is that you didn't specify what the sabotage actually is. I mean, deleting all your code before leaving is sabotage. Leaving without notice isn't. What did you have in mind when you wrote that?

There are three main sections in the article:

- Your reasons for leaving shouldn’t be a surprise to your boss

- Match your notice period to the handover period

- Set the team up to flourish without you

The "don't sabotage" subsection is under the "Set the team up to flourish without you" section, not the "Match your notice period to the handover period" section.

Seems fairly common sense that the author did not intend to conflate lack of notice with sabotage, considering that the subject of sabotage is completely independent and separate from the section relating to notice.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#112

Post by Nursie »

Dayshine wrote: post #53
marbletimes wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption here is that the employee leaving the company was due to some problems that could not be solved after careful discussion with the manager, skip-level etc. But leaving a company can also happen because another company offers you 50% more money or a different role, or you just feel like changing. For any employee, including managers, directors and up—there is only one thing to remember: when the company…

> when the company intends to let you go, they don't ask for your opinion. Two-week notice is professional and more than enough American culture is so bizarre. Here in the UK notice (in both directions) is usually contractually 1 month after 6 months, sometimes up to 3 months. If they really want to get rid of you they can pay you to job seek full-time for a few months, which is great. In practice, you get several mo…

In the UK 3 months is unusual, I've only ever heard about it for management positions. In tech roles 1 month is standard AFAICT.

Personally I'd never work on a three month term, I consider it abusive, it completely kills your ability to find a new role before handing in your notice. You'd have to be really confident of your skills and of the market before you made that leap.

And you can be fired for all sorts of reasons after 2 years, including poor performance, but there has to be a reason and you have to be given notice and a chance or three to fix the problem.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#113

Post by dustintrex »

p1esk wrote: post #104
froaway4job wrote: post #80

I think it's really cool that this particular employee had a great quitting experience. However, this is the worst advice I have ever read. Good experiences should not be translated into advice. Your employer is not your friend. You may be lucky enough to have friends who share the same employer, but at the end of the day you are employed by a business, treat it accordingly. Here's how I handle quitting in a remote w…

start my new job the same day I give notice This is bad advice. Most contracts in US explicitly prohibit this, so you could land in legal troubles if either company ever found out.

Most people in the US don't have contracts. Two weeks' notice is a convention, not law.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#114

Post by 300bps »

jamesbrady wrote: post #95
300bps wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think it’s good advice even for someone working in a rational environment. The part about giving ten months notice is terrible. He even says that it was bad for both sides! He was mentally checked out for months and not coming up with long term solutions because he knew he was out of there. Not my supposition - he literally says that. My past three jobs have all lasted at least a decade. I just don’t agree wi…

I think we might have crossed wires here… The section you're referring to is titled "Avoid giving too much notice " and basically gives five reasons for why 10 months was a harmfully-long notice period. The advice is to give much less notice than that.

I think you may have missed the part in my original comment where I said He even says that it was bad for both sides!.

Respectfully, my point was that the way the author (you?) left that company reads like it was a train wreck. To a level that I wouldn't look to the author for any advice on how to leave a company.

And what was the advice? Don't sabotage the company and don't give 10 months notice? If ten thousand people quit a job, how many would even imagine doing either of those things?

Re: How to quit like a boss

#115

Post by osrec »

I am a single data point, but trying to be too helpful when I've decided to leave an organisation has almost always backfired on me.

My advice: do the bare minimum, so you're not considered a complete trash bag. Anything more might backfire on you in horrible ways.

Disclaimer: I worked in trading, which can be a fairly hostile environment at the best of times.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#116

Post by YZF »

delgaudm wrote: post #76
oramit wrote: post #65

This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…

Could not agree more. The company is not, can not, and will not ever be loyal to you. Ever. They will fire you, lay you off, relieve you of duty instantly for any reason or no reason at all. They've lobbied for laws to do exactly that (in the US anyway). And they will keep information asymmetrical in their favor. No. Matter. What. In the long run they will be dishonest with you, they will lie to your face, and they w…

I agree with the parent but I disagree with you.

I am a manager in a large tech company and we care about our employees. We will not fire/lay them off/relieve them of their duty for any reason or not reason. We treat them as we expect to be treated. We will support them if they have some unusual circumstances. We do this because it is the right thing to do, and because it makes business sense. These are not mutually exclusive.

Is that the same as saying there's no situation where people will be laid off or let go? No. But it would happen for a good reason.

In a previous large company a decision was made collectively to take a wage cut and not lay people off. Employees got stock options to make up for the cut. In the end that all worked out.

Being ruthless to your employees doesn't make business sense. Who wants to work at a place like that? Does everyone do that? Absolutely not.

It's true a company isn't a person, but a company is made of people, and decisions are made by people, and you want to work somewhere that has good people that give a damn. At least I do.

All that said ;) if you are leaving, I agree there's no reason to stretch it out. That doesn't help anyone. In any properly managed project any employee leaving isn't the end of the world. There should always be more than one person that know what's going on. Having someone sit around, like a Schrodinger's Cat, that is both there and not there, doesn't really help anyone. It just feels weird. The rules of the game are set (in your contract), you need to give a notice, you give this notice, you're done. We'll take you out for lunch. No hard feelings. People move on for all sorts of reasons.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#117

Post by aniforprez »

jamesbrady wrote: post #20
rsstack wrote: post #17

People here have been burnt by bad managers and it's honestly sad. If you have a personal relationship with your manager beyond emails and "how was your weekend", there's a good chance they will appreciate your longer notice (not 10 months!) and you'll keep them on your side for the rest of your career. I gave a 2-months notice once, and my manager's manager even helped me find my next role at a different company (wh…

Exactly, this sounds like such a grown-up way to wind down a working relationship! I'm sure you'll stay in touch with that person and perhaps even refer people in their direction in the future.

I've stayed in touch with people even with "short" notices (1 month in my case) even if my leaving was a surprise. It just means the managers were professionals and didn't make me miserable as I was leaving. In one case, my CTO was an absolute gem through my entire stint there. It falls as much on them for me to want to stay in touch

Re: How to quit like a boss

#119

Post by meepmorp »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #87
froaway4job wrote: post #80

I think it's really cool that this particular employee had a great quitting experience. However, this is the worst advice I have ever read. Good experiences should not be translated into advice. Your employer is not your friend. You may be lucky enough to have friends who share the same employer, but at the end of the day you are employed by a business, treat it accordingly. Here's how I handle quitting in a remote w…

> Good experiences should not be translated into advice. Where else would advice come from?

A range of experiences broader than just the good ones.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#120

Post by [deleted] »

BeetleB wrote: post #57

There's a typo in the article's headline. It should read: "How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit" I've always found the sociology of work fascinating, and how it can vary so much from industry to industry. When I read statements like: > Your team trusted you and depended on you. It’s unethical to screw them over because they’re not paying you any more. I wonder what their world view is, and why they think you're screw…

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