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I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

benadam.me

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Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#111

Post by tablespoon »

ryanianian wrote: post #66

> The churn I experienced was significant One thing I don't see mentioned enough is the forced PIP policy. Basically every manager is forced to stack-rank their entire team, and the bottom N percent is put on a PIP. So even if your entire team is comprised of very top-notch engineers you will see forced attrition. It also disincentivizes helping team-members in deep ways and incentivizes back-stabbing politics. Of co…

> Basically every manager is forced to stack-rank their entire team, and the bottom N percent is put on a PIP. So even if your entire team is comprised of very top-notch engineers you will see forced attrition.

I've heard this leads to a "hire to fire" strategy: managers hire some schmuck that's not expected to succeed in order to protect the rest of the team from the policy.

Which is another reason I'd never touch Amazon with a ten-foot pole: it's not worth the risk of getting used and abused like that (on top of all the other issues).

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#112

Post by dudus »

cjaro wrote: post #94
netizen-936824 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does PIP stand for? I haven't run into that acronym before

Performance Improvement Plan. It's basically the company's way of saying "We want to fire you, but don't have a reason on the books, so here you go. In six months, pack your bags and go."

I respect your view and while that may be true on a lot of cases that's not what the company represents a pip to be.

A PIP is a situation where you are told you are not performing at the desired level and needs to improve. In a respectable company being on a pip can be good for you. In my personal case I was not performing well due to personal issues. Getting on a pip saved my job. It gave me the resources and attention to turn the situation around. You get a clearer plan of what you need to do and closer relationship with mentors to help you on the way.

But again if you don't improve you are fired and you have that hanging over your head.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#113

Post by pc86 »

brazzledazzle wrote: post #60
sharkweek wrote: post #25

Hey congrats on making it 10 months! "Urgent to not block progress, but also ironic that they are asking a person who has no clue what they are doing to deliver critical work" Friend of mine started a role there (this was 4-5 years ago) and was fired (sorry... more or less asked to leave, being told he could keep his signing bonus if he just left) within about six weeks because he wasn't immediately delivering on som…

>he came back from parental leave and his direct reports had all been put on a PIP while he was out Wow. It’s really difficult to imagine a likely scenario where that’s justified.

They had a quota to fill, and they didn't know or didn't like anyone on that team.

Not that that is a justification, but it's almost certainly the reason.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#114

Post by spike021 »

behohippy wrote: post #75
donretag wrote: post #28

Cases like these happen at companies at all levels. Massive companies such as Amazon and especially at startups, where roles are not as defined. After only two months at my current role, I was ready to leave. Was catfished into a role which was not what I interviewed for. Management agrees that I am getting short-changed, but is unwilling to let me change organizations. Sadly, I continue to stay here, after over a ye…

> Was catfished into a role which was not what I interviewed for Why does Amazon do this? I've bailed out 3 times on interviews with them now because somehow the role they sold me on end up being completely different by the time you talk to the team members doing the actual job. It's a huge time waster for everyone involved.

Heh something similar happened to me. Recruiter reached out, insisted role was on a special new team in SFO. I did the full interview cycle (on-site in Seattle, which I later learned is what they do if the role is in SEA..).

It was for an awesome team and org, really up and coming.

I get the congrats message that I’ll be getting an offer. Then find out it’s only for SEA. This is after the recruiter insisted it would be SFO because I didn’t want to relocate for various reasons.

Ah so that’s why they flew me to Seattle.. lol.

Ended up being passed around a few orgs recruiters and took a role in sfo that I finally left after 20 months. Sigh.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#116

Post by strgcmc »

I see a lot of these comments have taken to a kind of Amazon-bashing and venting their own experiences, where the author actually... didn't?

I thought the author was incredibly fair/objective, and at least the way I read it, it wasn't so much that he had such a miserable experience or could only stomach 10 months of pain/abuse (in fact if you actually read to the end, he praises his manager, his teammates, etc.), and more so that it only took him 10 months to realize that the company culture and way-of-working was not aligned with his personal preferences. He does have legitimate complaints about parts of his experience, and makes some keen observations about the consequences and tradeoffs of Amazon choosing to adopt the culture that it does (though I also think he's wrong about a few things too), but overall it's less of a "Amazon == bad" piece and more of a "this is why it wasn't to my taste" reflection.

Frankly, I would congratulate the author, and think of this as a success-story. Paraphrasing his own words, he learned a lot, met some good people, found some good practices that he's going to carry forward with him... isn't that a successful outcome (minus the annoyance of another round of job hunting, but hey in this market, another job hop is probably just an opportunity to level up comp, rather than an existential threat that you might be unemployed and starve)? Obviously the team/org he was in is suffering major attribution problems, and that's obviously a bad thing, but that's not his problem either.

Note: in case it wasn't clear, I do work within Amazon, but these opinions are my own, not representing my employer, blah blah

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#117

Post by [deleted] »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #82
sharkweek wrote: post #25

Hey congrats on making it 10 months! "Urgent to not block progress, but also ironic that they are asking a person who has no clue what they are doing to deliver critical work" Friend of mine started a role there (this was 4-5 years ago) and was fired (sorry... more or less asked to leave, being told he could keep his signing bonus if he just left) within about six weeks because he wasn't immediately delivering on som…

What does PIP stand for? I haven't run into that acronym before

[deleted]

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#118

Post by spike021 »

dpark wrote: post #105
spike021 wrote: post #70

This is like my situation. I just left after being there for 20 months. Various reasons on the team side. Imposter syndrome is a bad excuse but it contributed. Tried switching but other teams insisted on a full interview loop before I could even see it that team would be a better fit.

> Tried switching but other teams insisted on a full interview loop before I could even see it that team would be a better fit. That’s because they have no consistency in their hiring bar. I know multiple people who were contacted immediately by Amazon recruiters after failing an interview loop. “Hey, that other team says you suck but I bet you’re perfect for our team.” When you know other teams are happy to take you…

I definitely can understand that. But if I’m a mid level engineer I kind of have desires in what kind of team I’d like to join. I’d really hope a hiring manager can entertain that and let me speak with one or two people on the team before I have to agree to a loop. That’s just me though.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#119

Post by nostrebored »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #33

I finally started just marking their recruiter emails as spam. I still get a couple a month despite asking them to stop. I interviewed for them a few years back and it was clear then that they are looking for people that are technically smart but total pushovers. If you are the type of person that are susceptible to abusive relationships then you'd fit right in. The sad part is many of their employees prob feel lucky…

This is explicitly the opposite of what the interviews look for. If you are a pushover you will not have the disagree and commit, dive deep, and ownership lp stories you need.

I’ve done quite a few interviews for Amazon and the debrief was never ‘this person has strong opinions, not inclined’. If you’re not interested in getting the data to prove or disprove your opinions then that will count against you.

Re: I took a job at Amazon, only to leave after 10 months

#120

Post by MattGaiser »

matsemann wrote: post #62

> When I read through they offer they were pushing aggressively for a start date (2 weeks from the offer). Huh, in Norway the normal resignation period is 3 months. Maybe long, but goes both ways, so you always know your job isn't swept away from under your feet one day.

3 months? So if you accept an offer today, it would be customary to stay until April?

That's incredible. How are job tenures in Norway? Where I am, lots of people stay 14 + or - 4 months typically.

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