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Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

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Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#111

Post by numtel »

rbanffy wrote: post #91
betwixthewires wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about using a ledger to hold public keys. The keys exist regardless of the ledger. The idea is to use the ledger to indisputably prove ownership or control over resources. Could be money, could be access to certain services, could be files, anything. Also, the ledger doesn't have to be public.

If the ledger is not public, why would I trust it? If someone else claims they are you, how would I differentiate the conflicting claims?

Messages are signed by cryptographic signatures so nobody can claim to be you.

This is how JWTs and many other protocols ensure message authenticity.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#112

Post by mark242 »

herlitzj wrote: post #17

I honestly thought this was going to be a joke post because that top image is ridiculous. Maybe I'm just old, but it reads to me as Web 1.0: Great Web 2.0: Ugh, ok Web 3.0: You're serious with this?

The image amplifies what we already know is a fundamental problem with OAuth; people, instead of forgetting their username/password combo, now are forgetting which provider they use to sign into a service.

That "Web 3.0 login" portion of the slide only makes that problem worse. Decentralization and a variety of choices absolutely fall apart when they meet non-tech users who have no idea what icon means what.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#113

Post by numtel »

lottin wrote: post #82
spinny wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People already use ENS do register a .eth name to the respective ethereum address. It's also easy to write a smart contract that keeps meta-info on an address. This data would be public. > Why does currency and money need to get involved? It doesn't. You only need a blockchain to keep public data. You can sign a message and login with that, no need to send a transaction, can be done with balance 0

Buy I thought the whole point was "owning your identity"... and know you're suggesting that we should put or personal data on a blockchain so everybody can see it?

The identity owned is the private key.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#114

Post by thebean11 »

endisneigh wrote: post #109
thebean11 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to trust MetaMask to some extent, like any software you run locally, but MetaMask never gains control of your keys or identities, it's just a tool for using them (obviously 99.9% of users aren't auditing the code or building from source, but that's a totally different threat model). If MetaMask stops working for you, you can use a different tool with the same keys . If Google stops working for you you cannot…

> Apologies if I'm missing something, if it's easy to spin up unique identities on both what's the difference here? It seems like it would be one or the other. Yes except for a centralized entity the admin would have recourse. How does a web server admin deal with it in the case of blockchain? > I've seen posts on this forum about it. It happens and there's not much you can do if it does. If we are talking about anec…

> Yes except for a centralized entity the admin would have recourse.

Can you be more specific? How is it easier to sniff out a user using multiple emails vs multiple keys?

> If we are talking about anecdotes I’ve seen people lose their private keys to phishing and consequently all of their money, so…

Losing your keys is a huge problem that needs to be solved. I think social recovery is super promising in that respect but you're right that we aren't there yet. Phishing exists in both worlds, although I'd argue for logins specifically it's less of an issue in the MetaMask world, as you do not need to expose your private keys for that. You need to expose your password to log into Google.

> This is not true, depending on implementation. Even if we accept what you’re saying as true you can run your own oauth server.

Which part isn't true?

There is..some difficulty gap between a browser extension and running your own authentication infra..

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#115

Post by gillesjacobs »

jdlshore wrote: post #11

Several years ago, Mozilla/Firefox created "Persona," which was an open-source federated identity system that provided all the benefits described here. The idea was that it would eventually be built into browsers. I used it on a commercial site myself for many years. It failed to gain traction, and Mozilla eventually pulled the plug. Persona had many advantages over the Web3 vision described in this article. It was p…

Cryptocurrency ecosystems have the advantage of economic incentivization and if they're decentralised, uncensorability.

Those are two major advantages.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#116

Post by johnny22 »

iskander wrote: post #79
rbanffy wrote: post #54

I was fully expecting to see an empty HTML page. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only new idea here is to use a ledger to hold public keys associated with an identity. You could add keys by signing a new key with one of the previously globally accepted ones proving you are that entity and the same would go for removing a lost one, by signing a new message with all the remaining keys. Having a key copied without your…

A lot of these "this is not very different from X, you could do Y" replies remind me of the original Dropbox news.yc thread. What everyone seems to be missing is that the web3 apps and UI conventions already have broad adoption among millions of only mildly techy users. They don't know what SSH is but they do know how to sign things with their in-browser wallet app. Of course, they also seem to not always know that g…

I hate all this "web3" stuff by default, but this is so important to remember so you don't miss out on what actually makes it through the hype cycle.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#117

Post by wan23 »

mattlondon wrote: post #89
betwixthewires wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the thing about this is that there is no need to permanently tie identity across all sites and services you used (and provide), rather, the ability to do so when and where you need to do it. There's nothing requiring a user to use the same identity across every service they interact with, but the option should be there. I wouldn't want my matrix username(s) and my fediverse account(s) tied to my HN username(s), bu…

So if you are not going to go whole-hog and have one true identity for everything, why bother using anything apart from an email address? The argument seems to be that consistency allows you to prove ownership and re-use all of your content etc across the web by tying everything back to one verified identity. If you are having different identities on different sites then that benefit disappears, and I fail to see how…

Email addresses aren't really good for this. It's really easy to sign up for a service with someone else's email address, for example. Sure, if that person ever finds out they can potentially claim ownership of the account through a password reset, but it doesn't erase the fact that you have been using their "identity" for some time.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#118

Post by Hoasi »

yosito wrote: post #93
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how a blockchain-based approach, with so many disadvantages compared to Persona, could possibly succeed outside of the blockchain enthusiast community What’s in it for the user to sign up for persona? Nothing What’s in it for the user to get a crypto wallet? Money There’s your answer.

I don't know. Brave promised me money, and I still haven't gotten anything of significant value from that.

I have about $100 in BAT from the initial Brave giveaway, even though I almost never use Brave aside from testing.

Re: Real Problems That Web3 Solves, Part 1

#119

Post by ozim »

I like how "trustless" falls through the cracks at each and any of the Web3 posts I read.

It shows up as a marketing trick because it obviously means something very specific for that crowd and it is explained somewhere with a fine print.

I will stay with a thought that trust is not something that can be solved by technology :)

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