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Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

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Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#111
post #81

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

How exactly do you check if something is authentic? I can have a hundred Theranos-branded t-shirts, mugs, pens, diaries, socks and whatever else you want made and shipped to me in like 2 weeks.

That's your job. Sellers are motivated to provide evidence. "I just have it lol" is not going to command much premium over your costs.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#112

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

One of my biggest regrets is not getting a Kozmo messenger bag from dotcom 1.

One of my prized possessions is a Kozmo-branded CD opener, which I got by ordering a single CD from Kozmo, with free one-hour delivery. Thanks, venture capital!

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#113
post #103

It has been definitively admitted. Now we see the vultures tearing this fraudster apart and you what? That is good, and it is absolutely magnificent. Since many have gotten away with it, She is now the first of many that have been caught and need to be investigated and the other exit scams of this decade to be unveiled before the scammers race to the exit with a mountain of cash. So who is next?

If the global economy doesn't pick up soon we may see many more exposed. But next up I think wi be the Wirecard trial in Germany, if they find someone to prosecute

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#114
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are big wins! Some huge sums up there. How many years is she looking at?

20 years per count

That's the maximum possible the judge could decide to give. It bears little relationship to what the federal sentencing guidelines will actually suggest or the judge will deliver.

https://www.popehat.com/2013/02/05/crime-whale-sushi-sentenc...

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#115

Question: could Holmes have avoided all of this by pivoting to something else and not losing investors money. It is extremely common for startups to exaggerate their tech just to later pivot to something else without any repercussions.

If you have to ask yourself questions like these (as a founder) - you may very well end up in jail one day.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#117
post #107
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are big wins! Some huge sums up there. How many years is she looking at?

Technically 20 years per count, but realistically not too many. White collar crimes are anyways not punished very strictly, and she's a new mother on top of that. She'll negotiate a short term at some country club prison.

There are really no "country club prisons" in the US anymore.

Yes, there are minimum security prison camps for first time, non violent offenders, which seems entirely appropriate, but a day spa it aint.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#118

This will sound weird but I am a collector of swag from large companies that have collapsed due to anything from mismanagement to outright fraud. While we're a rare breed there are others like me out there. Still, even with this oddly specific marketplace being small, let me tell you, the Theranos swag market is hot right now (check eBay if you're curious). Wish I had gone big on this one earlier, because I have a fe…

One of my biggest regrets is not getting a Kozmo messenger bag from dotcom 1.

I know someone who has both beenz and flooz promotional stuff

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#119
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a super interesting niche. Do you see returns on your investments?

I don't remember where I first heard this, but it's good advice: don't collect as an investment, collect because you really enjoy the objects. I collect rare books, but never because I think they'll go up in value (although they probably will). I just like having them around. Socially, infamous corpo-swag is really even better - what a conversation starter! But I personally wouldn't want that sort of stuff in my shar…

Cool! Do you focus on any subjects?

Also, have you seen The Booksellers?

It took me a while to realize I was collecting books. Before, the way I thought of it was "I would never walk past an out-of-print book about computing history! I might never come across it again!" But now I am a bit more focused on the collection aspect, for example, there are now specific titles and authors that I seek out.

Re: Elizabeth Holmes found guilty

#120

It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Investors know that every dollar they put into a company could disappear, it's why startups get capital from investors and not bank loans. But a patient does not expect for their blood test results to be completely wrong. Her tests weren't giving false-negatives or false-positives, the…

> It blows my mind that she was found guilty for defrauding investors, but not guilty for defrauding patients about their test results. Not excusing it, but maybe it was a company vs personal thing (eg. consumer harm perhaps didn't pierce the corporate veil[1]). Whereas Fraud against investors is much more of a personal/individual thing. [1]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/piercing_the_corporate_veil

In other words, successful "fraud laundering".
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