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A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

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Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#111

Post by wholinator2 »

tarkin2 wrote: post #105
pydry wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The self developed UK government online services tend to be pretty good (sometimes very good!). It's the stuff they outsource to government contractors whose CEOs play golf with government ministers that are universally terrible.

This "playing golf with government minister" should be called out for what it is: a probable or possible bribe. It won't be money in a brown paper bag but the result will be the same. It's endemic. We like to think bribery and corruption happens to other countries but there's plenty of it in the UK: it's just higher up the totem pole and largely accepted.

Agreed, though I've always had this thought: How do we know it's not money in a brown paper bag/briefcase. I mean, could they not transfer physical money as easily as they transfer words and secret deals. Golf courses are huge, golf carts can have large compartments and be loaded up directly from a car. I know the thought is, "well why would they do that, surely there's an easier alternative", but my point is that it's not would, it's could.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#112

Post by twobitshifter »

cpach wrote: post #28
zekica wrote: post #15

The biggest blunder for me is that there were usable decentralized communication options before that were popular, but because of trying to monetize user's data FAANG started to tighten their grip on any decentralized solution, and I think they succeeded. They are already trying do to email the same thing they did to XMPP and RSS.

I’m not convinced that XMPP is actually such a great protocol. (I used it for many years.)

Do we know how great the centralized protocols are?

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#113

Post by mcdonje »

tarkin2 wrote: post #105
pydry wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The self developed UK government online services tend to be pretty good (sometimes very good!). It's the stuff they outsource to government contractors whose CEOs play golf with government ministers that are universally terrible.

This "playing golf with government minister" should be called out for what it is: a probable or possible bribe. It won't be money in a brown paper bag but the result will be the same. It's endemic. We like to think bribery and corruption happens to other countries but there's plenty of it in the UK: it's just higher up the totem pole and largely accepted.

Same thing in the US. I always laugh whenever I see a list of corrupt countries and the US isn't near the top. Codifying bribery into law as lobbying and superpacs doesn't make it not bribery.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#115

Post by cesarb »

feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

That still has the same issue mentioned in the article: it works fine inside an organization (the organization being, in this case, the whole country), but not between different organizations. For instance, how would I, a Brazilian, send a message to someone using that system?

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#116

Post by wholinator2 »

wholinator2 wrote: post #111
tarkin2 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "playing golf with government minister" should be called out for what it is: a probable or possible bribe. It won't be money in a brown paper bag but the result will be the same. It's endemic. We like to think bribery and corruption happens to other countries but there's plenty of it in the UK: it's just higher up the totem pole and largely accepted.

Agreed, though I've always had this thought: How do we know it's not money in a brown paper bag/briefcase. I mean, could they not transfer physical money as easily as they transfer words and secret deals. Golf courses are huge, golf carts can have large compartments and be loaded up directly from a car. I know the thought is, "well why would they do that, surely there's an easier alternative", but my point is that it…

And I guess my counterpoint is that could is a very very large potentially unusably large category of possible actions, and would is a much more tightly controlled set of realized actions we believe might happen again.

But then would has the potential of misdirection. Your believed set of would's might be entirely separate from the realized would's of the individual. Could is wider but has less room for interpretation or propagandizing. Exactly my point in the above post: why wouldn't they be able to transfer money. My set of would's include those deliberate obvious actions, especially if all kinds of other things happen on golf courses. Anyways, I'm rambling, have a nice day. :)

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#117

Post by 101008 »

cycomanic wrote: post #49
feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

I always discover how Estonia is really amazing for lots of technology things. AFAIK they are by quite a margin the most advanced country in Europe when in comes to egovernment services. Moreover my (admittedly outside) impression is that they often go for technologically sound solutions not the ones which some large lobby organisation pushed for. This is particularly remarkable considering how small the country is,…

Estonia is the one that also provided digital citizenship, right?

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#118

Post by smokeyfish »

101008 wrote: post #117
cycomanic wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always discover how Estonia is really amazing for lots of technology things. AFAIK they are by quite a margin the most advanced country in Europe when in comes to egovernment services. Moreover my (admittedly outside) impression is that they often go for technologically sound solutions not the ones which some large lobby organisation pushed for. This is particularly remarkable considering how small the country is,…

Estonia is the one that also provided digital citizenship, right?

Yes

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#119

Post by toyg »

wholinator2 wrote: post #111
tarkin2 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "playing golf with government minister" should be called out for what it is: a probable or possible bribe. It won't be money in a brown paper bag but the result will be the same. It's endemic. We like to think bribery and corruption happens to other countries but there's plenty of it in the UK: it's just higher up the totem pole and largely accepted.

Agreed, though I've always had this thought: How do we know it's not money in a brown paper bag/briefcase. I mean, could they not transfer physical money as easily as they transfer words and secret deals. Golf courses are huge, golf carts can have large compartments and be loaded up directly from a car. I know the thought is, "well why would they do that, surely there's an easier alternative", but my point is that it…

> How do we know it's not money in a brown paper bag/briefcase

One of the problems is that some of these checks can only be performed much later.

The most common currency of choice, for modern bribes, is the promise of a fat gig in the private sector when the political career ends. As the public demands younger and younger political classes, with lower and lower salaries, while maintaining an appetite for career-ending scandals and relatively short terms in office, it's inevitable that individuals will tend towards ensuring their future survival. Such promises need no paper trail, are trivial to keep, and are effectively invisible for years. When they're realized, it's typically too late to do anything about the original source of corruption, and the new guys in power have no incentive to cut that income source for them; in fact, they now know it works and are more likely to tap it for themselves.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#120

Post by EvanAnderson »

feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

I still have a vague hope that the United States Postal Service could be "pivoted" into being a PKI provider and distribute physical tokens to citizens. They already have substantial procedures and infrastructure for verifying identity. There would be problems, to be sure, but I'd much rather get my ubiquitous PKI for citizens from the USPS than the banks or "tech giants".
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