Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

paulbutler.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 700 posts

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#111

Post by sam_lowry_ »

lordnacho wrote: post #15

> I was skeptical that any mechanism to create bullshit jobs could arise from a system as inherently Darwinian as capitalism But if we take Darwinian evolution as our analogy, there are plenty of strategies that essentially piggy back on other organisms. Cuckoo birds, intestinal worms, a whole coterie of sexual behaviors. It's also the everyday experience of just about everyone that they perceive certain others to no…

> coterie of sexual behaviors

Are you saying we can witness that in people too?

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#112

Post by user-the-name »

duskwuff wrote: post #52
nlh wrote: post #38

A thought exercise you should undertake if you're thinking about / talking about crypto/NFT/web3-related projects: If the financial instrument that underlies the project were to stop going up in value XX% per month, would you still be interested in the project? I do this a lot because I've made the conscious (and perhaps financially foolish) choice to stay away from everything crypto/blockchain related (for now, at l…

> Is there a there there without an underlying token that's gone up XX% in the last N months and everyone hopes will still go up XX% in the next N months? Alternatively, even simpler: where is the money coming from ? A bunch of people playing a game are a closed system, and no value is created by playing the game. If the only reason why players are earning money from this game is because more people are continually b…

This is the most crucial question about everything crypto-related.

Because it turns out every crypto market is a negative-sum game. If you invest, you are guaranteed to lose on average. If you do happen to win, your gains are coming out of the pocket of someone else who lost even more.

The price of the token in question doesn't enter into this at all. It can rise, fall, anything. It is still a negative-sum game, but some people have not yet realised that they lost.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#115

Post by Kevin_S »

58x14 wrote: post #32

In the late 2000s, as a teenager, I was gifted a Runescape account. This account had level 80+ woodcutting, allowing one to chop magic trees - which would produce the most expensive lumber in the game. It took a staggering number of real hours to achieve this skill level, we're talking several hundred hours minimum. At some point I had realized that there were different sketchy websites that would buy and sell the in…

RS was the perfect game for me and dramatically changed my life. Started when I was 12, played for YEARS slowly getting better.

Discovered staking and scamming at the duel arena. Invented a new scam and made bils. Made a sizeable chunk over a couple years (enough to pay all my bills in college and a LOT of beer money). Got into botting with some friends, made a little money doing that too.

My experience with RS led me to an interest in economics, and I'm now an accounting PhD student about to graduate. My bro got into coding bots, and is now an SWE doing high level work.

I love the game to pieces, and it isn't because I made money playing.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#116

Post by sam_lowry_ »

beaconstudios wrote: post #101
smugglerFlynn wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just for the record, some of the examples Graeber uses include airline desk staff who calm passengers whose bags do not arrive, middle management, and corporate compliance officers. You can call these jobs “bullshit” if you rely on an oversimplified version of the world where perfect airlines, perfect employees, and automatically enforced laws exist. Unfortunately, that’s also the exact view I often see in tech, wher…

David Graeber is an anarchist, his criticism of bullshit jobs is about sustaining the centralisation of power, not techbro idealism. There is no reason outside of power dynamics why airline desk staff need to exist to comfort disgruntled passengers, because the existence of disgruntled passengers who need to be shooed off is a consequence of the airline industry.

Don't assume vested interest, like techbros do. Graeber was an anthropologist, and the book builds on his work more than on his views.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#117

Post by mminer237 »

jakemal wrote: post #99
jeremyjh wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is answered in TFA: > These “economic opportunities” are essentially a wealth transfer from new players to established ones. Gameplay requires the purchase of three Axies, which currently cost in the hundreds of US dollars each. Players who buy in treat this as an investment, since it’s a necessary buy-in in order to work in the game. It sounds more like a Ponzi scheme in a Gold farming disguise to me. I…

> It sounds more like a Ponzi scheme in a Gold farming disguise to me. I would agree with this if the primary income stream came directly from the increase in value of Axies as the game attracted more users. From my understanding, the income comes from acquiring and selling in-game currency rather than from the Axies themselves. Is this a bullshit job? Maybe. Ponzi scheme? I don't think so. If people are working this…

The in-game currency's purpose is to breed new Axies though. If there wasn't increasing demand for Axies, SLP would be worthless.

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#118

Post by Havoc »

nlh wrote: post #38

A thought exercise you should undertake if you're thinking about / talking about crypto/NFT/web3-related projects: If the financial instrument that underlies the project were to stop going up in value XX% per month, would you still be interested in the project? I do this a lot because I've made the conscious (and perhaps financially foolish) choice to stay away from everything crypto/blockchain related (for now, at l…

>would you still be interested in the project?

Sure, my fear is that my average peer won't be though. Even if I can see the technical merits...if all my peers are just in it for that quick buck this is going to end badly

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#119

Post by sam_lowry_ »

Aunche wrote: post #80
originalvichy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read excerpts of his book or his essays on the topic. You might be suprised.

I've read his essays, but not his books. Graeber does what every popular nonfiction writer does. He starts with a provocative conclusion, and cherrypicks data to support it. Bullshit Jobs is particularly bad in this aspect. https://www.economist.com/business/2021/06/05/why-the-bullsh...

You are linking to a critique. Here is the original essay: https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs/

Re: “Play-to-Earn” and Bullshit Jobs

#120

Post by user-the-name »

nlitened wrote: post #74
advisedwang wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that we end up spending a vast amount of human effort doing work that fundamentally doesn't need to be done. There's no actual economic output to paying people to break rocks.

Imagine there’s a multi-billion dollar industry where some people record sound waves made with their vocal cords, and other people pay _real money_ monthly to have a chance to replay those waves for entertainment only.

Do you not understand that people find it pleasurable to listen to music, or what?
Post reply on HN