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To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

deccanherald.com

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Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#111

Post by blablabla123 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #7

Thi will never cure the underlying cause of suicides, of course, but adding even slight obstacles has proven to have an effect on suicide rates. Many suicides aren't thoughtfully planned out, but are just a combination of motive and easy opportunity. Even adding something as seemingly silly as a moderately difficult to climb fence to a bridge can reduce suicide rates. This is a fine measure, assuming that it's follow…

Most accidents happen in the own households. I won't be more specific to give any suggestions but this approach makes the likely root cause - hardship in the pandemic - even worse.

> This is a fine measure, assuming that it's followed by investment into mental health.

More recreational opportunities and less pressure during studies are probably more helpful. From a documentary I've seen recently stress at India's universities must be extreme in some cases.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#112

Post by pddpro »

screye wrote: post #60

I think this is a genuinely good idea. (which should obviously be accompanied by actual rehabilitative options and de-stigmatization of mental health) I went to similar institute in India (NIT, the proverbial first losers), and 3 students hung themselves over the span on 2 years. (1 acquaintance, 1 friend) From what was made public, their decision to commit suicide was a rash one, tied to the fear of failure. (one wa…

You have written such a thoughtful reply that it honestly makes me sad. Why can't something so basic, that each of us feel within us does not occur to or resonate with hundreds of qualified (I imagine) administrators or policy makers?

Or is it just that, only we see the sense?

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#113

Post by cascom »

Isn’t this just a question of ease of substitution? If it’s a trivial to substitute hang yourself from x vs y or substitute Hanging for handful of pills - is the marginal benefit really there? I suspect not, but I do think from an administrators standpoint this has the effect of a) looking like they are doing something, b) pushing [embarrasing] suicides off campus/out of sight.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#114

Post by salawat »

GavinMcG wrote: post #103
AdrianB1 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks as bikeshedding. If you want to eliminate suicides, finding and fixing the motivation to commit the act is the way to go. Having a fan on a ceiling is not an opportunity, just one of the many available means to an end and not a compelling one, so it is really a way to pretending to care while not doing the right thing.

Well, it turns out your intuitions on this one are wrong. Means restriction is one of the most empirically supported suicide-prevention strategies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6191653/

Means restriction is an effective way of preventing a lot of things. To the point we have phrases like "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail".

Food for thought.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#115

Post by rg111 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #49
rg111 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally the #1 institute in India. If they want, they can get ACs.

Why would you think that? The top universities in places like India and China get their positions mainly by selecting the brightest students, they don’t actually throw a lot resources their way, and these students are often paying their living expenses themselves or with a small stipend or subsidy.

No, I know multiple people who presently live there and have lived there in the past.

This is also one of the richest universities of India- not merely one of the best.

I also heard of someone who studied medicine at AIIMS Delhi. It is another of rich institutions of India. The rooms, although small, will match a 3 star hotel in terms of amenities. The same is simply not true for IISc. Despite being one of the richest unis of India, their amenities do not match that of AIIMS Delhi.

But that institute is not cash-sterved as Indian institutes go. The labs are great, the faculties are the same. Many of them can easily teach at any US uni.

What I think is the reason of absence of ACs in rooms is the Bangalore weather.

During most of the year, you really don't need an AC or even a ceiling fan.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#116

Post by tshaddox »

halfdan wrote: post #52
captainmuon wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but it is really important that you follow up with psychological help. Sometimes I wonder if suicide prevention measures like this just remove the last bit of agency that people have, and while they will live on, they will just suffer silently. Maybe suicides are not thoughtfully planned out, but they are often preceeded by a very long phase of suicidal thoughts and rumination, and sometimes fixation on specif…

That is all assuming that all will remain suffering. How likely is that? It seems much more likely that some may look on this dark period in their life and be grateful they didn't go through with a suicide.

Surely that would depend greatly on the cause of the suicidal thoughts.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#117

Post by GavinMcG »

salawat wrote: post #114
GavinMcG wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it turns out your intuitions on this one are wrong. Means restriction is one of the most empirically supported suicide-prevention strategies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6191653/

Means restriction is an effective way of preventing a lot of things. To the point we have phrases like "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". Food for thought.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. You seem to be hinting at something, rather than being direct, but it's not clear what you're hinting at.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#118

Post by GavinMcG »

derbOac wrote: post #110
GavinMcG wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it turns out your intuitions on this one are wrong. Means restriction is one of the most empirically supported suicide-prevention strategies. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6191653/

I think the point is, does removing fans make someone less depressed in the long run, or increase their quality of life? If someone still wants to kill themselves, but cannot because all means have been eliminated, have you solved any problems? I'm honestly not sure that I'd argue it doesn't increase quality of life, but using suicide prevention as an outcome seems superficial to me.

Well you've solved the immediate problem of having zero further opportunity to solve the underlying problem (because they're dead).

One point made in the linked article is that identifying risk in individuals isn't something we've found a good way to do. If we know who needs help, helping them is better than removing a fan. But we usually don't know who needs help, despite a variety of sensible-seeming approaches to figuring it out.

There's still an argument that aside from the individual level, we should address things at the societal level: what socioeconomic forces contribute to people being in tough situations where suicide seems like the only way out, and how can we change those socioeconomic forces?

That's a great question and a great place to focus our energy. And, while we're working on changing the world in bigger ways, we can make it a safer place.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#119

Post by [deleted] »

medstrom wrote: post #92
perth wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly my university giving us rooftop access for working on and setting up radio equipment was one of the most educational and enriching things I did there. Restricting access to rooftops for students seems like a terrible idea for education, where a lot of science literally happens on rooftops, whether with antennas or telescopes. (some students used the rooftop access to monitor fukushima reactor radiation in th…

You could get a ladder if you need a rooftop for a science project, right?

[deleted]

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#120

Post by rkk3 »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #108
mcv wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for most it's a cry for help, but some people die before they get the help because their method is too effective. Of course there are also people who have carefully considered their options and decided they really want to die, but I suspect that's a very different group.

Men usually do it with the intention of success, that explains the huge disparity (4 to 1) in results.

Intention of success is hard to know... What we do know is women use less lethal methods like pills, rather guys who use more lethal methods like firearms.
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