Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#111

Post by smoldesu » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

minimaul wrote: post #64

It's still not really ready for prime-time, but I've got a M1 mac mini running debian as an arm64 build bot (and a few other small things) now, and I can say that the bits that work, work really well. Storage is fast, CPU performance is solid, PCIe for ethernet works just fine. Now if I could just get one with 64G of RAM and 2TB of SSD... ;) edit: the setup process is still far from polished but that's not unexpected…

> Now if I could just get one with 64G of RAM and 2TB of SSD... ;)

Careful what you wish for. With the way Apple marks up memory and storage upgrades, you might be looking at a $5,000 machine there...

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#112

Post by stjohnswarts » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

ericls wrote: post #94

hbbio wrote: post #3

The progress on all fronts is really impressive, and even the write-up is top notch. The pace at which the team advances is incredible, as it seems Apple support is minimal... Maybe the core tech users is negligible to Apple, but it shouldn't be: Winning over the power users generally precedes larger adoption and I wouldn't be surprised if Macs continue to gain market share in the years to come with their CPU lead.

If it can run linux, it can conquer data center

In it's current form I don't think so. It's not optimized for DC/enterprise. It certainly has potential though.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#113

Post by stjohnswarts » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #10

hbbio wrote: post #3

The progress on all fronts is really impressive, and even the write-up is top notch. The pace at which the team advances is incredible, as it seems Apple support is minimal... Maybe the core tech users is negligible to Apple, but it shouldn't be: Winning over the power users generally precedes larger adoption and I wouldn't be surprised if Macs continue to gain market share in the years to come with their CPU lead.

power users come and go. general population don't need macs, a $ 200 smartphone is more than enough for the majority who would spend 1.500 euros (in Europe) for a laptop that has a limit of 16gb of RAM? only people with lots of money to waste.

Most people spend a lot of time on the computer. I can't imagine working around a half screen of data and halfscreen of a keyboard. Make a proper wireless docking station and give me a keyboard and mouse and monitor and then we'll talk. After about half hour staring at a phone screen I'm ready to throw it through a window from the eye strain. I think laptops/desktops will be with us for a while longer.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#114

Post by smoldesu » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

specialist wrote: post #103

sys_64738 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Performance per Watt only matters to Intel when they are leading. Otherwise they brute force to be "fastest". I think that the ARM in Macs is on a different trajectory than Intel. The battery life along in an ARM based Mac is second to none. That's more important to most folks, IMO.

> ...the ARM in Macs is on a different trajectory than Intel Agreed. Yes and: I'd like more analysis and punditry (predictions) comparing SoC offerings from Apple, Intel, AMD, etc. Especially wrt Apple's anticipated consumer features and markets, like AR/VR, video chat, integrated Apple Pay, whatever. For instance, I want to hear more about Apple Silicon's codecs. More about biometrics UX (Face ID, Touch ID). I think…

> While Apple Silicon is probably fine for server, I don't anticipate Apple caring, leaving those segments to existing cloud providers, eg Amazon's Graviton.

It mostly comes down to the supply chain, from what I can see. Apple is already pushing their luck with the 5nm node, their current strategy is pretty much just keeping everyone else off the cutting edge technology so they can monopolize TSMC's manufacturing chops. They could pivot to servers, but that would cannibalize their plans for the Mac and probably force them back onto the 7nm node, which would probably throw away the majority of their bragging points right now.

Plus, if history has shown us anything, people simply don't want Macs in the datacenter. xServe gave people the option, but that quickly went the way of Itanium after a year or two. Apple's history of "it's not a bug, it's a feature" and "you're holding it wrong" doesn't exactly appeal to corporate buyers who want to set-and-forget a system and have a number to call when it breaks.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#115

Post by stjohnswarts » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #12

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

power users come and go. general population don't need macs, a $ 200 smartphone is more than enough for the majority who would spend 1.500 euros (in Europe) for a laptop that has a limit of 16gb of RAM? only people with lots of money to waste.

I suspect you'll get downvoted into oblivion for your PoV by the pro-Apple HN crowd and even though I do agree with you to some extent on the the high pricing (a basic M1 MacBook is half my NET take home pay as a dev in Europe, and double my rent costs) but value is subjective to most people, and for most, buying into the Apple ecosystem the value the ecosystem brings to their lives is justified, otherwise they would…

I think if you get snarky with the HN crowd and tell them they're bad people and living life the wrong way they will get snarky back. HN isn't a unimind, there are lots of opinions here. Look at the way you approached it, you did well, you had nuance, you didn't assault the reader.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#116

Post by stjohnswarts » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #21

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you'll get downvoted into oblivion for your PoV by the pro-Apple HN crowd and even though I do agree with you to some extent on the the high pricing (a basic M1 MacBook is half my NET take home pay as a dev in Europe, and double my rent costs) but value is subjective to most people, and for most, buying into the Apple ecosystem the value the ecosystem brings to their lives is justified, otherwise they would…

well, truth is Apple MacBook Air 13 with 16 GB of RAM is listed at € 1.429 on the Italian Apple web site. My sister bought a Lenovo thinkbook with a Ryzen 7, 16 GB of RAM (upgradable up to 32) for € 729 My 3D artist friend an Asus ROG 14 with an NVidia GPU and 32GB of RAM for € 1.780 and he's using it to render complex scenes. Does the increase in performance justify the ridiculous price? It doesn't, in my opinion. A…

Not everyone has the same end user needs as your friends, so they're choices are just as valid.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#117

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #60

boplicity wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who would spend 1.500 euros (in Europe) for a laptop that has a limit of 16gb of RAM? Let's say you use a laptop for 6 hours a day, five days a week, 48 weeks a year, and that it lasts for 3 years. That's 4,320 hours of usage. For many people, it's worth paying 35 cents per hour to use a machine that's even just a little bit better than one that costs half that. I'm writing this on a high-end Macbook Pro that's 8 y…

>35 cents per hour to use WOW that's kind allot TBH.

[deleted]

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#118

Post by stjohnswarts » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #37

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well, truth is Apple MacBook Air 13 with 16 GB of RAM is listed at € 1.429 on the Italian Apple web site. My sister bought a Lenovo thinkbook with a Ryzen 7, 16 GB of RAM (upgradable up to 32) for € 729 My 3D artist friend an Asus ROG 14 with an NVidia GPU and 32GB of RAM for € 1.780 and he's using it to render complex scenes. Does the increase in performance justify the ridiculous price? It doesn't, in my opinion. A…

The price seems to be comparable to premium lines of PC's. Dell XPS and HP Elitebooks often meet or exceed the price of comparable MacBooks.

I find the hardware in the more "elite" laptops lasts longer. In 2015 I bought an Asus ROG middle of the road priced computer and have had to replace the hard drive in it and two keyboards. I have a macbook from the same year and 0 problems, and use it more than the Asus.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#119

Post by stjohnswarts » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #88

dijit wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price seems to be comparable to premium lines of PC's. Dell XPS and HP Elitebooks often meet or exceed the price of comparable MacBooks.

> The price seems to be comparable to premium lines of PC's. How many times people said that the Air is the "entry level" "low budget" Mac? Which one is true? Is it a luxury product or an entry level one? I can quote many comments saying both things in the same thread. Anyway, no company pays Lenovo full price and their discount policies are far more aggressive than Apple's. There's a reason: Apple doesn't undersell,…

There is a middle path here...

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#120

Post by stjohnswarts » Wed, Dec 15, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

dijit wrote: post #100

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The price seems to be comparable to premium lines of PC's. How many times people said that the Air is the "entry level" "low budget" Mac? Which one is true? Is it a luxury product or an entry level one? I can quote many comments saying both things in the same thread. Anyway, no company pays Lenovo full price and their discount policies are far more aggressive than Apple's. There's a reason: Apple doesn't undersell,…

> Is it a luxury product or an entry level one? Obviously: Both. The absolute "entry" point is the Mac mini. The MacBook Air a low spec "luxury" quality device for people who want a well built laptop (that has decent battery life and a good screen) but do not have heavy demands on performance. If your argument is discounts then I don't support that pricing model (unpredictable frenetic oscillation) anyway. And, yah,…

I bet the hardware will be working 10 years from now as well. Apples tends to use great hardware even if it is sometimes a little underperformative compared to PCs at the same price point.