Live data from Hacker News

Player of Games

arxiv.org

111–120 of 242 posts

Re: Player of Games

#111
post #82

Comparing against Stockfish 8 in a paper released today and labeling it as "Stockfish" is bordering on being dishonest. The current stockfish version (14) would make AlphaZero look bad, so they don't include it ...

Isn't the point comparing traditional heuristic techniques against DNN-learned techniques? I understand the latest Stockfish is etching quite close to AlphaZero techniques, but maybe I am wrong.

Re: Player of Games

#112
post #70
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: The consensus between professional go and chess players is that all new AI systems (alphago, etc) have really revitalised the game and introduced incredible amount of new strategies and depth.

I wish alphago was more "democratized" -- that is to say, I have many questions and experiments I'd love to run on it (a friend of mine and I have frequently pondered Go played in various different topological spaces, and I'd love to see an AI's result, for example).

Look into Katago. It's an open source AI in the same general style as AlphaGo, with an empasis on training speed. On 9x9 you can get up to superhuman really quickly on just a decent home machine (I think hours/days, can't remember exactly and it's probably improved since I looked).

Re: Player of Games

#113
post #69

Yawn, show me a computer that game make fun games

You're getting downvotes but honestly I agree. Who cares about board games? We should've moved on from this once we "solved" chess and Go. There are more important things and it's not remotely surprising that a computer can beat a human when there's a simple, abstract optimization problem to throw computing power at. Make it creative...now that's a challenge worthy of the top AI talent.

You haven't seen AlphaGo play Go then, it plays creatively as hell at points.

Re: Player of Games

#114
post #82

Comparing against Stockfish 8 in a paper released today and labeling it as "Stockfish" is bordering on being dishonest. The current stockfish version (14) would make AlphaZero look bad, so they don't include it ...

Isn't the point comparing traditional heuristic techniques against DNN-learned techniques? I understand the latest Stockfish is etching quite close to AlphaZero techniques, but maybe I am wrong.

It does have the option to use a neural network (nnue) in its evaluation, but it is very different from what AlphaZero/Lc0 do. You can choose not to use it, so you still could have a "traditional" evaluation (which would still blow Stockfish 8 out of the water). Also, Stockfish 8 isn't the last version before they merged nnue ...

Re: Player of Games

#117
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started with Consider Phlebas but stopped because it seems too slow for me. Does it get better in the later chapters?

I couldn't get through the cannibal part of Consider Phlebas, was soo weird.

There's one scene or so in each one of his books that's just too much for me. I just don't need to donate brainspace to that sort of thing. (Use of Weapons has one, Song of Stone too.)

I like 80% of his work, 15% is a pointless depressing slog, and the other 5% is just too much for me.

Re: Player of Games

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started with Consider Phlebas but stopped because it seems too slow for me. Does it get better in the later chapters?

It does, but IMO it's probably worth reading The Player of Games or Use of Weapons before it anyway. With the exception of perhaps Surface Detail, none of the Culture books rely on any others. Consider Phlebas gives a good view of The Culture from "outside" (the perspective of the Idrians) but is quite slow.

I mean, Player of Games has a pretty slow start too. I love that book, but the initial pacing is IMO its biggest flaw.

I know Use of Weapons doesn't depend on any of the other books for its plot, but is it a decent intro to the setting? If it is, that's where I'd recommend starting.

Re: Player of Games

#119
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started with Consider Phlebas but stopped because it seems too slow for me. Does it get better in the later chapters?

I couldn't get through the cannibal part of Consider Phlebas, was soo weird.

Yeah, that was just...out-of-nowhere gruesomeness.

Re: Player of Games

#120
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tried my hand once or twice at (re-)implementing board games [0], so that I could run some common "AI" algorithms on the game trees. What tripped me up every time is that most board games have a lot of "if this happens, there is this specific rule that applies". Even relatively simple games (like Homeworlds) are pretty hard to nail down perfectly due to all the special cases. Do you, or somebody else, have any reco…

+1 to boardgame.io. It provides very good abstractions for turns, phases, players, and partial information. I’ve implemented small games with a few hours of effort, and that includes a UI.

It's a good set of abstractions, but I've found that the system used for immutability (immerjs) carries noticable performance costs (a factor of more than 2), to the point that it was faster to make a mutable copy of almost all the gamestate at the start of the 'apply move' code.
Post reply on HN