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The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

mcc.gse.harvard.edu

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Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#111

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

gruez wrote: post #63
mrdoops wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need stable, actionable futures. Homes they can afford to own, communities they can raise kids in, an environment that won't go up in flames; they need systems that have their back.

The parent comment: >Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses Is the lack of affordable housing and/or environmental disasters really responsible for people who lack the precondition (eg. having a partner) for buying a home?

When was having a partner a precondition for buying a home? Furthermore, what’s the point of finding a partner when the cost of a permanent place together might exceed both your incomes put together, much less a place big and safe enough to raise a family.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#112

Post by anotherman554 »

ljm wrote: post #73
jbrun wrote: post #4

It's a bit paradoxical. I have a tech company and most staff want to come to the office 1 day a week. Getting them to come is very tough. Many of my staff and friends don't want to have kids, make no effort to find a partner and find all sorts of excuses. Netflix, the internet and these things are part of the problem, but I have no clue what the solution is. There is only one way to not be lonely - be with people who…

You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix in the form of a committed relationship (using the example of people not having partners or not thinking about children). There's been an expectation for a long time that your self-worth as a person is connected to being with someone else, and therefore your path to increase self-wor…

"A partner and a baby won't suddenly make you less lonely or more happy, more likely you'll just have two unhappy people who have to work even harder to make a living, and a child that requires therapy."

There's nothing wrong with being single, but as a statistical matter, I'm going to go out on a limb and say there are many people, even flawed people who haven't found themselves, for whom a partner and a baby will make them feel less lonely and more happy, otherwise wouldn't our species be extinct? The fact that humans continue to be born suggest nature predisposes us to certain behavior which we see as being in our best interest.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#113

Post by panaffa »

basisword wrote: post #104
panaffa wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point on agency. Throughout their lives GenZ has either had less agency or felt like we have less agency to do what we want. Certainly true for some financial goals like buying a house

The oldest gen z are just out of college though. I think it’s the younger millennials you might be describing (people a decade into their career with little prospect of home ownership).

Back in the 60s, people were buying homes in their early 20s or even late teens because it was that affordable. Obviously that is a bit of a historical anomaly, but it's almost a necessary complement to the idea you're supposed to become an adult and mature and grow up after age 18.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#114

Post by kordlessagain »

helpfulmandrill wrote: post #85
ljm wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix in the form of a committed relationship (using the example of people not having partners or not thinking about children). There's been an expectation for a long time that your self-worth as a person is connected to being with someone else, and therefore your path to increase self-wor…

> You really have to know how to look after yourself, and be happy with yourself, before you can really bring another person into the mix. That's not really true though. We're born social animals, we die social animals. Being solitary isn't a means of "finding oneself" so that one is ready to "bring other people into the mix". It's just a way of slowly going crazy. There's a reason why solitary confinement is a form…

Solitary confinement could drive someone to think differently, but the point was that solitary activity, not confined, is totally tolerable by some and not necessarily a bad thing.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#115

Post by vorpalhex »

azemetre wrote: post #76
api wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loneliness crisis long predates the acceleration of telework adoption during COVID, and the job has never been peoples' primary place for socializing.

How can a place where you spend over a 1/3 of your life NOT be a place for socializing? A large amount of Americans date coworkers and office relationships are absolutely the norm: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/14/one-in-three-americans-has-d...

Not the parent but I'll do my best to make a good counter argument.

The job should not be your place of socializing. People have opinions, make jokes, have bad days, get upset at each other, misbehave and so on. These things are fine, they are human.

However, these things aren't appropriate for work. My coworkers don't get to choose me, they are stuck with me. I try very hard to be mild, polite and gentle at work.

That is very much not who I am as a person. My friends know this and are fine with it, but they also get to choose to be my friend (or not).

I literally feel like I can't have a real friendship or genuine social interaction at work. I might exchange pleasantries and try to make polite small talk, but it's not worth the risk of making someone else feel alienated or offended.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#116

Post by aarondf »

basisword wrote: post #104
panaffa wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point on agency. Throughout their lives GenZ has either had less agency or felt like we have less agency to do what we want. Certainly true for some financial goals like buying a house

The oldest gen z are just out of college though. I think it’s the younger millennials you might be describing (people a decade into their career with little prospect of home ownership).

> little prospect of hope ownership

A devastatingly accurate typo

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#117

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

JohnWhigham wrote: post #35
naravara wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn’t this depend on having friends who are off the internet too? In the before times, I’d go to get drinks with friends and often found they were chronically distracted. If there’s a lull in conversation they pull out their phones. I go to the bathroom and come back and they’re swiping through Tinder. I got married before the dating apps got popular so I never went down that particular rabbit hole, but I feel like…

If there’s a lull in conversation they pull out their phones. I despise how this behavior has been completely normalized. Especially in the dating sphere. People putting their phones on the table to make sure they never miss notifications is just so fucking disrespectful to the people you're actually with.

Personally I never understood it as disrespectful, because I assume they’ve got some personal shit they might not be able to be uncontactable for. What if someone they know is in the hospital or they’re in some other high priority issue? What if a close friend of theirs is in a tenuous health position? What if they’re checking on their children? And most certainly they’re not going to tell me and frankly I’m not entitled to whatever shit they’ve got going through it we’re just getting to know if we like each other broadly. I think assuming I should have dedicated time to someone who is just seeing if we get along is rather selfish of me- I don’t know their life enough to know if they have other priorities they’re trying to balance.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#118

Post by vel0city »

thedougd wrote: post #89
mymythisisthis wrote: post #62

Volunteer. Join a group. Hang out at a hackerspace. Enrol in adult ed.

Adding to your list, social sport leagues. They're relaxed and welcoming of the less athletic and include 'easier' sports like dodgeball and kickball.

Social sports leagues are also good to help encourage a decent bit of activity as well. For those who have a hard time being motivated to go to the gym and exercise regularly it can be incredibly beneficial to have a group to play some kind of sport with as a habit. Personally I have a hard time being motivated to go to the gym but having a group to encourage you to come out and play a game its a lot easier to be motivated.

You don't have to be good to have a good time.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#119

Post by basisword »

panaffa wrote: post #113
basisword wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The oldest gen z are just out of college though. I think it’s the younger millennials you might be describing (people a decade into their career with little prospect of home ownership).

Back in the 60s, people were buying homes in their early 20s or even late teens because it was that affordable. Obviously that is a bit of a historical anomaly, but it's almost a necessary complement to the idea you're supposed to become an adult and mature and grow up after age 18.

They also had things a lot harder in many ways than we do. The 60’s is over 50 years ago now. The world changes a lot in that time. Basing your expectations on the 60’s is unrealistic.

Re: The pandemic has deepened an epidemic of loneliness

#120

Post by basisword »

aarondf wrote: post #116
basisword wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The oldest gen z are just out of college though. I think it’s the younger millennials you might be describing (people a decade into their career with little prospect of home ownership).

> little prospect of hope ownership A devastatingly accurate typo

Haha oops :) Fixed it now.
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