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ADSL works over wet string (2017)

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Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#111

Post by samwillis »

martinald wrote: post #90
samwillis wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we (in Stamford Lincolnshire, UK) must be pretty unique right now with TWO competing FTTP startups both rolling out on the same streets. One day you will see Lightspeed Broadband pulling their fibre through the BT ducts and putting boxes on the top of telegraph polls. The next day Upp Brordband will be on the same street. So bizarre they they are doing the same town! Apparently we are due to have BT put in th…

Basically there is an enormous amount of capital (at least £10bn from startup providers) out there going into UK FTTH builds. BT focussed too much of content (BT Sport) instead of FTTH and private equity now thinks there is an opp to steal marketshare from BT/VM. However BT have now now committed £10-20bn, VM probably a few billion. It will quickly consolidate like it always does.

Thanks, I figured it was something like that. One of the startups here is a bunch of former BT execs so I was assuming they were hoping to exit by selling either to BT or VM.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#112

Post by verve_rat »

kazen44 wrote: post #96
ohyeshedid wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From previous personal experience in building new plants, and expanding existing plants: Cost of deployment and slow roi are the primary drivers of stagnating local networks. Complicated corporate accounting, carrier incumbency, and weak governments are the core causes. Carriers being publicly traded companies really screws up incentives to fix these problems. It seems to be mostly a binary decision at the top; more…

also, the infra (which ADSL runs on) was build in a time when telephone companies used to be either state-owned or a single monopoly with heavy goverment involvement. Doing the same thing with fiber is necessary, but will not happen without strong govermental involvement.

Indeed. New Zealand has had a pretty successful fiber roll out over the last several years because the government awarded exclusive contracts to fiber providers that then have to provide access to their network to all ISPs.

Works great. Even my village of several hundred people has fiber now.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#114

Post by kabdib »

rootusrootus wrote: post #70
kabdib wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took over a year for Ziply to repair the land line of my 90-year-old parents. 30+ hours on the phone with support, multiple visits by techs who were simply not interested in doing any work. I had a tech tell me, literally to my face, "this line is working fine" when the line was stone dead. Another told me that I had to buy all new phones because the ones my parents had were "out of date". (To humor him, I bought…

> I have now learned that the WA state utilities commission is pretty interested when providers try to pull stunts like this. A number of years ago I worked at a CLEC, during that short window of time when they could exist. One of the more useful things I learned is how much power the PUC has. Every phone company has a team that deals with complaints coming in via the PUC and they are eager to resolve them. Not somet…

There are public records on how phone companies are doing, complaint-wise. It's interesting (but infuriating) reading.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#115

Post by edude03 »

zaphirplane wrote: post #102
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyway, my hat is off to the people who designed and implemented ADSL. It's a blessing-and-a-curse: too many incumbent ISPs in highly-developed nations used ADSL's ability to run on anything as an excuse to put-off FTTH deployments (looking at you, BT).

In hind sight wouldn’t 5g have been a better investment than fiber to home, I mean companies will have to have 5g to stay competitive in mobile anyway

No, because 5g is a shared medium. It can deliver... 3 gigabit/s? or something like that? Let's say it's 10Gb. That's 10gb shared with everyone in the vicinity, which is not great especially in high density areas like apartment buildings.

Furthermore, you still need to run fiber to the actual base stations anyway.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#116

Post by Eelongate »

leoedin wrote: post #105
Terry_Roll wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The telephone cable coming into the house is 50volts DC is not AC like a powerline. I know radio waves are just that, waves, its how things like noise cancelling headphones work. Different frequency's give you different ranges or distances for 1 watt, which is why you can bounce Long wave around the planet.

Radio waves down a wire are by definition AC. Otherwise they don't work. The voltage must change, thus the current must change, thus it is AC. Just because it's not 50/60Hz AC like a powerline doesn't change that. There might be a DC component, but ultimately all the ADSL modem cares about is the AC part.

Couldn't you send an amplitude modulated signal down a DC line by modulating the voltage but keeping that voltage always above zero? If the current never actually reverses, it wouldn't be AC as I understand it. It would be PDC, pulsed direct current.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#117

Post by _8j50 »

It works on chickenwire too, VDSL not so much. Back in the day when i installed internet lines customers with mandatory ISP service requirement by the gov with absolute shit outside or inside wiring got ADSL, forward-error-correction magic. VDSL was a lot more sensitive.

In some cases I would be forced to use a cat-5 or even poor quality cat-3 where two pairs are for ethernet , one pair for A/VDSL and the blue pair for voice/POTS (voip to pots converted)

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#118

Post by cpgxiii »

toast0 wrote: post #78
throw0101a wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are IEEE standards for single-pair Ethernet: > In addition to the more computer-oriented two and four-pair variants, the 10BASE-T1,[17] 100BASE-T1[18] and 1000BASE-T1[19] single-pair Ethernet physical layers are intended for industrial and automotive applications[20] or as optional data channels in other interconnect applications.[21] The single pair operates at full duplex and has a maximum reach of 15 m or 49…

Sadly, there's not much in the way of equipment for this. I could really use two small 10BaseT-1 to 10BaseT converters, preferably both powered from one end.

Since most of the 1000Base-T1 gear is still unreasonably expensive/effectively impossible to get quickly in small quantities, you can run 100mbps and 1gbps Ethernet over "reasonable" lengths of single twisted pair using MoCA adapters plus coax->twisted pair baluns. Achievable cable length will obviously depend on EMI conditions, but I've had reasonable success with this method on twisted pairs in industrial robots.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#119

Post by SturgeonsLaw »

charcircuit wrote: post #109
mattlondon wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in high-density London, we're stuck with ~70mbps ADSL and not even cable. Not representative of all of London, but at least around my parts it is slow ADSL or nothing :(

Are you suggesting 70Mbps is slow ADSL? There are many places where not even a tenth of that speed is possible.

I had a chuckle at the 3.5Mbps that the wet string was getting in the article. When I first moved in to this house, I was getting around 3Mbps on ADSL. Thankfully now I'm on 100Mbps fibre (not amazing by global standards, but good by Australian standards).

That wet string would have been an upgrade for me.

Re: ADSL works over wet string (2017)

#120

Post by ccakes »

mattlondon wrote: post #93
samwillis wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we (in Stamford Lincolnshire, UK) must be pretty unique right now with TWO competing FTTP startups both rolling out on the same streets. One day you will see Lightspeed Broadband pulling their fibre through the BT ducts and putting boxes on the top of telegraph polls. The next day Upp Brordband will be on the same street. So bizarre they they are doing the same town! Apparently we are due to have BT put in th…

Here in high-density London, we're stuck with ~70mbps ADSL and not even cable. Not representative of all of London, but at least around my parts it is slow ADSL or nothing :(

Nit: if 70Mbps isn’t a typo, then you’re on VDSL not ADSL.

ADSL tops out at ~24Mbps while VDSL can go much higher, albeit over shorter distances than ADSL

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