Common Jobs in a Medieval City • Hacker News Board

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#111

Post by Someone » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:40 PM UTC

dmurray wrote: post #50

qw wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shoemakers also repaired and maintained shoes. They would replace soles, repair holes etc.

That's an argument for needing fewer people, not more - since it happens in situations where it's less labour-intensive to repair shoes than to make them from scratch.

Not necessarily. If the materials are expensive, paying somebody to repair a shoe can be the cheaper option.

I think people still repaired socks after knitting them was automated for that reason.

The first automated knitting machine was from 1589. Queen Elizabeth I denied its inventor a patent “because of her concern for the employment security of the kingdom's many hand knitters whose livelihood might be threatened by such mechanization” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lee_(inventor))

Edit: maybe not. https://www.historylink.org/File/5721 learned me that gear for us soldiers in World War One was knitted manually. Maybe, those machines weren’t used (much) yet by then?

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#112

Post by monknomo » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

dotancohen wrote: post #68

photojosh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In tracing my family tree, I found a branch that went back to a small town in Scotland, and at least 3-4 generations back were shoemakers. When did my forefather leave the family trade? Circa 1850, when the Industrial Revolution apparently hit shoemaking hard. He ended up keeper of a coffee shop in Glasgow, and his daughter was on a ship to Australia in 1891.

> on a ship to Australia in 1891 What was she accused of? ))

They quit transporting people in 1868

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#113

Post by claudiulodro » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #70

WFHRenaissance wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely a blacksmith in almost every city, but probably fewer blacksmiths per city than the other jobs. Metal tools are built to last, and are expensive, so it was probably often a low volume high cost kind of business where production could be covered by a minimal number of smiths.

They must have been quite prolific then. There's a reason Smith is the most common surname in the English speaking world.

TBF there are many types of smiths, so maybe that's why: blacksmith, goldsmith, tinsmith, coppersmith, etc.

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#114

Post by PeterisP » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #18

smitty1e wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Church worker; social worker: what's the difference?

That they are two massively different occupations, with different goals, different processes and different regulations they fall under. Just about the only thing they have the same is low salary.

The point is that there's more overlap than how it looks like on the surface level. E.g. part of what a A.D. 1500 village pastor does is what's done nowadays by psychotherapists and marriage counselors; the role in filling the people's needs is similar even if the processes and regulations are wildly different, just as the processes and regulations of A.D. 1500 shoemaker or surgeon are wildly different than the modern shoe factory worker or surgeon.

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#115

Post by bserge » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

anthony_r wrote: post #84

kibwen wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also The Lindy Effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_effect

The industry is over half a century old by now, barring some absolute catastrophe, it's not going anywhere.

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#116

Post by bserge » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

WFHRenaissance wrote: post #40

StupidOne wrote: post #39

I'm surprised blacksmiths didn't cut to the top 10. Almost everyone would need some kind of metal tool(s) to do their job in medieval time.

Definitely a blacksmith in almost every city, but probably fewer blacksmiths per city than the other jobs. Metal tools are built to last, and are expensive, so it was probably often a low volume high cost kind of business where production could be covered by a minimal number of smiths.

If only they knew about planned obsolescence /s

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#117

Post by LegitShady » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #59

drcode wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Likely not too surprising, given that most people were illiterate. Probably they also helped with letter writing/reading?

I've seen arguments that most people were literate. Learning to read and write is not hard, and it is a useful skill. Of course literate was relative: before the printing press there wasn't much to read (book took months to copy by hand). You were reading and writing short notes. Spelling wasn't standardized so you phonetically spelled things and had to figure out what the other person meant. Good enough for letters,…

It kind of seems like your job as someone making the claim to come up with a reference?

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#118

Post by ajross » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

Xylakant wrote: post #15

MikeTaylor wrote: post #4

Striking that there were more shoemakers than tailors.

It's much easier to make clothes at home than shoes. I could probably cobble together an odd looking shirt given some time and instructions without needing to buy special tools, but leather shoes are an entirely different thing.

Exactly. The article nods to this in a few places, but it's important to recognize that this is an accounting of "recognized" professions, something that left some kind of written account (most of the article is based on tax records it seems like). Which means at the end of the day this is mostly a list of what the men were doing.

Stuff done "at home" obviously involves work, but it wasn't a "profession" in a notional sense so it wasn't recorded. Certainly we should assume that there was trade within and between cities based on this kind of output too (i.e. "Is that one of Marie's sweaters?", "Here's a few coins, go to Sophie down the street and see if she has any more of that jam from last summer").

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#119

Post by Andrew_nenakhov » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

tomjen3 wrote: post #107

stevenjgarner wrote: post #55

It surprises me that all 10 jobs still exist, while there are several more recent occupations that no longer exist (albeit they were not that common): Milkmen, Elevator operator, Switchboard Operator, Ice Cutter, Bowling Pin Setter, Film projectionist, Lamplighter, Leech collector, Alchemist, Bematist, Redsmith, Daguerreotypist, Town crier

Alchemist became Chemist. Dageuerreotypist became photographer, which has only recently gone away. Town crier is now the guy flipping a sign for the new burger joint.

Town crier [1] is now news anchor.

[1]: https://i.pinimg.com/736x/79/2b/89/792b8997970b433b06b10721b...

Re: Common Jobs in a Medieval City

#120

Post by pessimizer » Mon, Dec 06, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #104

Aerroon wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who don't know: barbers were also surgeons and dentists until around the middle of the 18th century. Not only did they cut your hair they also pulled out your teeth and performed surgery on you.

And where generally closer to our modern day MDs then real mediaval MDs. As those where theologists coming from christian universities where they received basically zero true medical training.

Secular doctors were also terrible: before the late-19th century, seeing a doctor was more likely to shorten your lifespan than lengthen it. Unless you needed surgery, which meant that you were in serious trouble anyway, so even with the extreme likelihood of infection your odds were a bit better than just leaving it alone.

As far as I can tell, before like 1880 they prescribed mercury for everything.

Even though they were universally terrible, when you read their writings they're no less confident in what they were doing than modern doctors are.

My favorite historical doctor was Benjamin Rush, a "founding father," who was hilariously bad at his job even for the time.