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California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

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Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#111

This is not going to work well unless they massively improve math instruction in the lower grades. In fact they seem to be taking the opposite approach, where "equity" just means setting every student up for failure equally.

Many American K-12 education administrators dream of making schools into diploma mills: 100% graduation rates, 100% test scores, 100% meaningless and unaccountable. "Racial justice" is just their latest leverage to move closer to this goal.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#112
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for < 9th grade children. Since the organizations feel ashamed that they're failing certain demographics as evidenced by being under-represented in the advanced classes, they're just scrapping the advanced classes for everyone. Truly disgraceful

How old is a 9th grade student in the US? My cohort started Algebra in year 7 in Australia, which is 12/13 years old. And similar to GP's proposal, we learn age appropriate topics every single year, every single week.

Grade nine is 14-15 years of age in the US.

I agree with you WRT age appropriate-ness. Just because something can or has been introduced at a certain age does not mean that is optimal. I recall a study I saw recently that showed delaying introducing one subject - it may have been math - to very young students had negligible impacts on their scores (compared to students who were introduced earlier) a few years later. The students with a delayed introduction caught up so quickly that the delay didn’t matter. I’ll see if I can dig up a link - EDIT, I’m struggling to find it under all of the COVID-related student-delay-catch-up articles.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#114

This state has lost its mind. When I have kids, they are going to private schools or if I can't afford that home school. Seems like the aim of California schools is to create politically radical students, who can't do math. Perfect for our times!

Let's say you are an extremist of any sort of ideology. Generally people that are obsessed with such ideologies are also obsessed with the idea of spreading it via indoctrination. So whereas a normal well adjusted human would design an education curriculum for improving the lives of the students an ideologically obsessed person will design it to promote their ideology at all other cost.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#115
post #73

I think we should really hold off on addition and reading until the post graduate level. Once we take this to it's logical conclusion and reset the achievment bar to absolute zero, it will be impossible for there to be any inequality. All classess straight through undergrad could be limited to a combination of nap time and snack time.

Please stop giving these people ideas...

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what this means. Where I went to school there were no gifted programs but we all were doing algebra and word problems much earlier than in the US. If people want consistent outcomes then teach everyone the same thing and hold everyone up to the same standards by investing more resources in students that are underachieving. That to me seems like a much better way of equalizing outcomes.

If you teach "hard" things to average US public school students, a minority of them will excel as a result. The rest will nod off, get bored, not pay attention, and not benefit. So it benefits a minority (those who care) and differentiates them from the rest -- that's what they don't like. Because those who care come from "privileged" backgrounds more often than not, thus perpetuating the gap between privileged and n…

I still don't follow. What exactly in what I suggested is the problem with equalizing outcomes? If everyone is learning the same things then what exactly is the problem? There is no discrimination involved.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#117
I am not from US so don't interpret my comment trough US blue vs red or similar lenses. My observations is that students learn at different speed, the issue with a teacher that is forced to teach a class of 25 students is very obvious, at each step some student will fall behind, then if he is behind he will have more trouble comprehending the next topic and in the end you get a student that does not know the basic rules of signs when multiplying. I know such a person that failed his national exam, he did not know how to multiply negative integers , but this person had the ambition to get his dream job so he found a tutor and he learned and then he got a good grade. The difference was that you had a tutor with 1 or maybe 2 students at a time and that the student wanted to learn.

When I am doing homework with my son or check is lessons I always wonder what is happening with students that parents don't have the time or the skill to do math,physics,programming together with the child. Some will hire private tutors but to few.

Seems to me that either you get fewer students to a teacher, or have less dense material to work with so the teacher can have the time to check each student and figure-out what exactly is unclear. And you ofcourse you need good teachers,

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#118
I have got another bright idea: let's rename elementary mathematics to algebra. Anyone who can do addition, passes the course. This is going to be great for the metrics California measures. I am sure that nothing can go wrong here.

Seriously speaking, this is going to increase the social divide between the families who rely on the public schools, and the families who are educated enough to teach their own children or can hire the tutors.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#119

My parents introduced it to me at home around 4th-5th grade? So I was ~9-10yo? Not sure why delaying it will help, if anything the earlier the better. Everything I hear about "equity in education" seems to be making it worse, but more equally I guess. Like another poster already mentioned, reminds me of the Harrison Bergeron story by Vonnegut - seems like we are rapidly approaching that point. http://www.tnellen.com/…

To be fair, the basics of algebra are already taught in first grade (or whenever you learn arithmetic). Kids at that age won't have questions such as

x + 3 = 7

Instead, they will get questions such as

__ + 3 = 7

They might not formally learn it, but they'll learn the patterns that they will eventually apply in algebra.

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