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Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

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Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#111

Post by matheusmoreira »

josh2600 wrote: post #41
rasengan wrote: post #28

Legal methods are a crutch at best. Apple would be wise to put forth the same budget into their security team's research and development and properly address these weaknesses.

Ok normally I’d just let something like this go but I just have to pull my hair out when I see a comment like this. The attack surface of software as complicated as a modern operating system (iOS or MacOS, etc.) is simply too large to lockdown without dramatically hurting the user experience (assuming you could actually achieve a lockdown in the first place!!). Let’s, just for a second, propose that apple went full M…

> literally treating any piece of software running on the device as a potential threat vector even more than they already do

Sounds amazing. Every operating system should be designed this way. Only free software should have full access. Proprietary software cannot be trusted and must be regulated and controlled.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#112

Post by [deleted] »

freejazz wrote: post #81
udev wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple knows since at least 2016 of NSO activities on their devices and servers, while selling this image of privacy competence. This long period of inaction, from 2016 to now is unacceptable.

It's as if you don't get the point about legal standing. Apple can only take action now because of a court deciding that Facebook's TOS forum clause is actually binding. If they filed the case prior to such a holding, it'd have been dismissed.

[deleted]

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#113

Post by freejazz »

udev wrote: post #107
freejazz wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's as if you don't get the point about legal standing. Apple can only take action now because of a court deciding that Facebook's TOS forum clause is actually binding. If they filed the case prior to such a holding, it'd have been dismissed.

What if Facebook never filed? Would Apple never be able to act on this? If they would have acted, why didn't they do it before Facebook?

"What if Facebook never filed? Would Apple never be able to act on this?"

If there wasn't precedent that Apple's TOS venue clause was binding, then the case would have been thrown out as I just previously explained.

"If they would have acted, why didn't they do it before Facebook?"

Because the case would have been dismissed as I just explained.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#114

Post by aborsy »

What does state-sponsor mean here exactly? Is NSO supported by Israel intelligence?

And if charges are laid against NSO, will its sponsors be charged/sanctioned too (for sponsoring terrorism)?

If this was a company in another country, the reaction would have been totally different (in some cases calls for bombing would have been made, and continued for decades).

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#115

Post by rodgerd »

technobabbler wrote: post #48
badRNG wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could interpret this as the software is "sponsored" by the governments that finance their operations and purchase their products. This would be countries like Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Germany, and Kazakhstan, not necessarily Israel. Though the fact the US has sanctioned an Israeli business does seem to have potential implications on Israeli policy. [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/us-blacklists-four-compan…

Beyond merely selling their products to Israel, the NSO Group itself is an Israeli firm, founded by ex-Israeli intelligence, and whose products are subject to Israeli national export controls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSO_Group That's a level of sponsorship way beyond simply being a customer... that's state espionage served with a side of profit. It's evil when the USA does it, it's evil when the Russians do it,…

Every Israeli citizen, except religious extremists, serves in the IDF or equivalent; if you look useful to the intelligence apparatus, that's where you'll end up.

You literally cannot find an Israeli company that isn't founded, run, and staffed by people with military or intelligence links, unless you're only dealing with religious extremists.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#116

Post by michaelbuckbee »

Ellsworth is a personal hero of mine - incredibly smart, wildly talented and has a real vision for this space.

All that being said, it's a nightmare of a space which is why I don't think there's been a big funding event for Tilt5.

"Meta View" was an AR company that raised $75mil, had a star studded list of VR/AR technology folks, only ever shipped a couple thousand units and now is defunct.

Magic Leap raised $3.5 Billion and now has given up on shipping a consumer device (Enterprise only).

Microsoft's Hololens exited consumer applications even earlier, enterprise only.

Oculus Quest is the most successful consumer VR tech (about 5 million sold) but it's really unclear if they're anywhere close to turning a profit and they've spent tons to try and jump start game developers in VR.

Tilt5 would require from the ground up games to be made, large volumes of orders/units to be profitable and even if all that came together could still be kneecapped by chip shortages and supply chain issues.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#117

Post by Sporktacular »

nickff wrote: post #91
high_byte wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my brother has vans sponsorship. he gets shirts and shoes, not money ;) you get my point?

I agree that the word 'sponsorship' has been quite diluted, as you point out, but it should mean something more than 'be a customer of'. Do I sponsor my local sports team when I buy tickets to a game? Am I sponsoring Netflix by subscribing? Do I sponsor my local government by paying property taxes? On the flip side, does my government sponsor me by granting a driver's license?

I get bothered by the use of the term "nation-state" in this context.

And I thought I was pedantic.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#118

Post by rodgerd »

rasengan wrote: post #28

Legal methods are a crutch at best. Apple would be wise to put forth the same budget into their security team's research and development and properly address these weaknesses.

Well, that's one way of outing yourself as someone who knows literally nothing about modern computer security.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#119

Post by rodgerd »

nazgulsenpai wrote: post #4
hfern wrote: post #2

What other goodies will they find during discovery? Hopefully the public can get snippets like in Epic Games v. Apple.

Isn't NSO Group an Israeli firm with close ties to government? I strongly doubt anything will come of this.

NSO have started threating to release dirt on Israeli politicians because they are unhappy that the Israeli government isn't covering for them.

Re: Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored spyware

#120

Post by fsflover »

josh2600 wrote: post #102
rStar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m sorry but there’s no world where Apple can make perfect security i think everyone knows that perfect security is not possible, the operative word being ‘perfect’. i think what we want is for apple to ‘actually try’ to provide security, in some way that results in security order of magnitudes better than we enjoy today, which would still be miles and miles away from ‘perfect’, vulnerable to nation state actors e…

Can you point to a single instance of a cellphone vendor who takes security more seriously than Apple? Put a different way, is there any device with a high monthly active user count that has a higher cost to purchase a black market exploit than the iPhone? Apple can always do better. It should also scare the living hell out of us that they’re currently the best in the world. My point is that if Apple can’t secure you…

> is there any device with a high monthly active user count that has a higher cost to purchase a black market exploit than the iPhone?

This is unfair, because there is a duopoly and the only alternative on mass market is Android. Of course in such circumstances the exploits will be expensive, even if security is awful.

Ignoring this, Purism takes security more seriously, because they give the user full control over the OS with possibility to replace/reinstall or harden it. In contrast to that, rarely updated iMessage is impossible to uninstall on iOs.

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