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“Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

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Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You hand that info to the merchant because your credit card company can issue chargebacks against them and that costs them a pretty penny with their payment processor, especially if it happens often. Credit card disputes almost always slant in favor of the customer. Folks just don't seem to realize: you make a reasonable effort with the vendor, and then go straight to your credit card company. I caught a restaurant "…

I believe this doesn't work with debit cards, which are the norm in Europe. Still though, it's a weird system. Instead of giving someone just enough permissions to spend my money, I give them permissions to spend all of it, with some other party reimbursing me if that goes awry (and I notice).

  > Instead of giving someone just enough permissions to spend my money, I give them permissions to spend all of it
A peeve of mine is that the trust-until-a-screwup system is used in far more critical places than with a credit card. For instance, "DOT certification" of tires has no paper trail until people die.

If a tire fails while operating within its speed regime and before five years from manufacture, then it is to be reported to the DOT (US Department of Transportation). This usually only happens if the police are reporting on a fatal accident - most common citizens neither know that this option exists nor how to report it. If enough reports of a specific brand or type of tire come in, then the manufacturer (or importer) must provide proof of the testing done and pay some fines.

Many of the cheap Chinese tires are out of business (read: have changed business names) far before this critical last step could ever be reached, assuming that any reports were filed at all.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#112
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just as bad in Europe! Signed up to O2 Deutschland - had to send a fax or send a physical letter to cancel.

This isn't "Europe", it's Germany. Germany is still well known for using fax for government and corporate communication, and there was heavy criticism for how the Covid pandemic was initially handled because faxing records was so common which meant they could not be easily digitized, collected and searched. In Sweden, sending a fax or physical letter to a government instance or private companies rather than an e-mail…

Yeah, I live in Sweden now too.

I think Sweden is the exception here really though (and the other Scandinavian countries, and possibly the UK).

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#113
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just as bad in Europe! Signed up to O2 Deutschland - had to send a fax or send a physical letter to cancel.

That's illegal in Europe. You have to be able to cancel via the same means as you signed up. So if you can signup online then you must be able to cancel online.

I subscribe to Der Spiegel (German weekly news magazine) and as far as I can tell it can’t be cancelled without e-mailing them.

This is unfortunate because although I can read German, I can’t write or speak it, so figuring out how to write that e-mail would be a headache.

Edit: Thanks to aboalarm.de, which I learned about from this thread, I have learned the correct formula to use:

> Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,

>

> hiermit kündige ich mein oben genanntes Abonnement Ihrer Zeitschrift fristgerecht zum nächstmöglichen Zeitpunkt.

so if I do ever decide to cancel, this thread has been quite useful.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#114
post #29

In Portugal the law makes it so you can cancel any service using the same means that you used to subscribe it, so if they support subscribing online, unsubscribing also has to be doable the same way; same goes for via phone, personal or whatnot. It makes sense, prevents service providers from making it too difficult to terminate a contract.

Portugal is logical on some stuff.

Another example is prostitution is legal but you can only advertise yourself. I wonder what other countries have prostitution set up like this.

Or the speed traps that just trigger a red light.

Decriminalization of all drugs obviously too.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#115
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just as bad in Europe! Signed up to O2 Deutschland - had to send a fax or send a physical letter to cancel.

There are 3 ways to cancel an O2 contract - (1) Online intimation + phone call, (2) Letter or (3) Fax [0]. Most routers (like Fritzbox) come with a fax function which you send an online fax [1]. O2 charges a maximum of 0.14 cents per fax page or free based on your DSL plan. Alternatively, you can also send a physical letter online (0.70 cents) [2]. Your comment below says that there is no receipt for confirmation. O2…

This was 10 years ago, it definitely wasn't possible by phone call back then.

Hopefully it'll get better. I also had a terrible experience with Vodafone in the UK, charging the higher rates for data usage with no warning.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#116
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few times I found it was easier to cancel a card than to cancel a subscription. I still find it insane that the "normal" way to pay for goods and services is to pass full details of your payment card, sufficient to make any future payment, and just trust the merchant. Surely the sane way is you generate some token they can redeem against, but you can e.g. expire it or modify it. It thankfully is now more of a thing…

I once had a paper/digital subscription, and at some point I had cancelled the card linked to it. Unbeknownst to me (my parents were receiving the subscription), they had kept sending the paper despite the card being cancelled. When NYT eventually realized the card had been cancelled, they claimed that I owed them for the ~year or so that I had been receiving the paper after the card was cancelled, and attempted to s…

That's not outrageous at all. Your failure to pay doesn't invalidate your contract that you will pay for their services.

It's definitely frustrating to cancel, and this is a good ruling that will help make it easier, but it's still your responsibility to do so.

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not, because there's no real receipt confirmation. They ended up chasing me for 3 years over 20 euros when I moved to the UK. At least here in Sweden, credit checks aren't really a thing thankfully.

Yeah, but try to cancel an internet subscription here in Sweden…

I've always had it included in the BRF or rental agreement. Only 28 Mb/s mind...

Re: “Click to subscribe, call to cancel” is illegal, FTC says

#119
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just as bad in Europe! Signed up to O2 Deutschland - had to send a fax or send a physical letter to cancel.

You can instruct your bank to stop the direct debit payments and they'll cancel your subscription.

This was the whole issue though. I closed my bank account and moved country, and they delayed cancelling it and then chased me up on one month's payments for years - when I had no easy way of making payments in Germany.

In the end I paid it though, it was only 20 euros!

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