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How to make a CPU – a simple picture-based explanation

blog.robertelder.org

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Re: How to make a CPU – a simple picture-based explanation

#111

Post by Aeolun »

kayson wrote: post #24

Circuit designer here - feel free to ask any questions about the manufacturing process, design etc. Having a thorough understanding of the process, I thought this was hilarious. But if you really want to understand the process, it's pretty terrible. It spends 10 steps on making a wafer, and then the bulk of the actual process is condensed to 16.

Hmm, I was fairly certain there were a few steps missing when the smashed rock suddenly transformed into an ingot.

If minecraft taught me anything it’s that ore doesn’t spontaneously turn into ingots.

Re: How to make a CPU – a simple picture-based explanation

#112

Post by nwiswell »

rubylark wrote: post #34
lsiunsuex wrote: post #8

I've always been curious how someone gets into this line of work. Is it all via college / post education and your directly recruited by these companies? Obviously, this is a very hard (impossible?) thing to teach yourself. I can't imagine more than a few universities offer this type of education? Where would you start / what path would you go down to be a chip designer / work for an Intel / AMD ???

My brother and several of his friends do this for a living at Intel. Most of them have Electrical Engineering PhDs, though I believe one is a Chemical Engineer. My brother's thesis specifically was in 2d transistor design and worked under a Material Science professor. I believe most universities have professors who teach Semiconductors classes, whether it is under the name Computer Engineering, Electrical Engineering…

> Downside of this field is that there are very few job opportunities without relocating. If you're in the US, you can work at Intel... or Intel. Unless you're willing to move to Taiwan and work at TSMC.

Only if we're talking specifically about cutting edge logic. There's Texas Instruments and GlobalFoundries in the US on the trailing edge for logic. In memory, where the fabrication techniques are similar, there's Micron, IMFT in Utah, and Samsung in Texas. Not to mention that TSMC is building a leading edge logic fab in Arizona.

And then of course there are all of the capital equipment suppliers, where the US punches way above its weight. Applied Materials, Lam Research, and KLA are all headquartered in California and employ a lot of the same talent that Intel does.

Re: How to make a CPU – a simple picture-based explanation

#113

Post by R0b0t1 »

afr0ck wrote: post #108
R0b0t1 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible. The chemicals are not too dangerous, and yes, you can train yourself. Maybe it wouldn't fly in the EU.

> Maybe it wouldn't fly in the EU. May I ask why?

Because Europeans are afraid of everything. I was trying to avoid a comment that seemed politically charged but I don't know any other way to say it.

I was into hobby chemistry for a while -- people trying to do anything in the EU find it almost impossible. Poland and Eastern Europe are better about it, but eh.

Re: How to make a CPU – a simple picture-based explanation

#114

Post by afr0ck »

datameta wrote: post #102
mhh__ wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RISC-V probably has the most "serious" effort of anything other than ARM and X86.

That's a fair estimate, but let's not forget IBM's Power architecture.

There is also Sparc and to a lesser extent MIPS. They are more mature than RISC-V and have a decent software ecosystem.

Re: How to make a CPU – a simple picture-based explanation

#115

Post by Aeolun »

kayson wrote: post #24

Circuit designer here - feel free to ask any questions about the manufacturing process, design etc. Having a thorough understanding of the process, I thought this was hilarious. But if you really want to understand the process, it's pretty terrible. It spends 10 steps on making a wafer, and then the bulk of the actual process is condensed to 16.

When designing circuits, I cannot imagine you lay everything out by hand. Do you have specific sets of pre-made circuits/connections that you just kind of copy paste all over depending on the desired functionality of the chip?

Re: How to make a CPU – a simple picture-based explanation

#116

Post by zokier »

GhettoComputers wrote: post #44
capableweb wrote: post #29

I recall there being a game mentioned somewhere here on HN, where you start with basic logic gates (I think), and you build up a fundamental CPU at the end of the game, using the parts you discovered along the way. Problem is, I don't remember what the game is called, and no amount of searching seems to help me. Anyone know what it was called?

Not the same game but if you like that genre zachtronics is really good at logic games and has assembly programming. https://zachtronics.com/tis-100/ >Print and explore the TIS-100 manual, which details the inner-workings of the TIS-100 while evoking the aesthetics of a vintage computer manual! >Solve more than 20 puzzles, competing against your friends and the world to minimize your cycle, instruction, and node coun…

Well, if Zachtronics is mentioned, then worth pointing out that the older games fit the CPU manufacturing theme better. He had a game literally called "Silicon Foundry" which used premade blocks, and then KOHCTPYKTOP which got more into the nitty gritty

Re: How to make a CPU – a simple picture-based explanation

#117

Post by Chris2048 »

adminscoffee wrote: post #61
nynx wrote: post #54

It'd be really awesome if microprocessors, even at a low-end process node like 130 nm, could be made with room-sized machines or smaller. There's a lot of space for companies wanted to manufacture their own MCUs, for instance, without relying on massive supply chains. I think this'll happen at some point, as silicon manufacturing hits final roadblocks and becomes increasingly commoditized, but it'd be nice if it were…

yeah you are onto something. massive supply chains have a ton of carbon footprint. which some people that doesn't matter but for someone like myself, i am a bigger fan of less carbon emissions. i wonder if there is a way we can build an etching machine and print chips somehow, the process seems a little clearer after watching this simplified video. i think it can be done, everything complex is just a bunch of simple…

> massive supply chains have a ton of carbon footprint

Are you talking about distribution? Because I would have thought the small size/weight of wafers would mean those costs would be fairly small. Maybe (silicon) packaging could be done locally, but even then packaged chips weigh little.

Re: How to make a CPU – a simple picture-based explanation

#118

Post by zsmi »

kayson wrote: post #74
lordnacho wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both. Ah I think I might have had that book until my parents' basement flooded. Yeah of course when it comes to how things are actually done it's hard to know without actually working in the field. But I just wanted an overview.

I think the Baker book is good for an overview. I also used Pierret's Semiconductor Device Fundamentals in undergrad. It goes more in depth for device physics than it is a pure manufacturing text, but I recall it also had a nice overview.

Baker http://cmosedu.com

And Weste http://pages.hmc.edu/harris/cmosvlsi/4e/index.html

are both very good. Weste is used in more Universities but it also has a digital slant to it.

Re: How to make a CPU – a simple picture-based explanation

#119

Post by zsmi »

sgarland wrote: post #56
rubylark wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother and several of his friends do this for a living at Intel. Most of them have Electrical Engineering PhDs, though I believe one is a Chemical Engineer. My brother's thesis specifically was in 2d transistor design and worked under a Material Science professor. I believe most universities have professors who teach Semiconductors classes, whether it is under the name Computer Engineering, Electrical Engineering…

There are other fabs in the US - Samsung, Global Foundries, NXP, and other smaller places.

Also, if you want to be a "chip designer" then you can work for a fabless company too. They're basically everywhere.

Re: How to make a CPU – a simple picture-based explanation

#120

Post by zsmi »

ffhhj wrote: post #96
kayson wrote: post #24

Circuit designer here - feel free to ask any questions about the manufacturing process, design etc. Having a thorough understanding of the process, I thought this was hilarious. But if you really want to understand the process, it's pretty terrible. It spends 10 steps on making a wafer, and then the bulk of the actual process is condensed to 16.

Is it possible to embed optic fibers and optoelectronic gates along with semiconductor gates? How is the fabrication process different? Probably there are size limitations due to fiber width and paths?

This is a very active area of research. It's quite technical though so it takes a good amount of study to get into it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_photonics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_quantum_photonics

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