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Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

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Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#111

Post by AnthonyMouse »

giga_chad wrote: post #26

Google has us all by the balls. As a small business owner, in my particular market, I can't survive without their services, even though they suck and I hate them, and their entire company. My business can be destroyed by Google on a whim at a moment's notice. How did it get to be so bad?

> My business can be destroyed by Google on a whim at a moment's notice. How did it get to be so bad?

Market concentration. Almost like you might benefit from some kind of Ending Platform Monopolies Act.

I wonder if they've considered how this kind of messaging could backfire. You tell a bunch of small businesses who don't like you keeping them in a cage that there is some pending legislation and they should write to Congress. They might look into it first. Are you sure you still want them to write to Congress?

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#112

Post by Le_Dook »

commoner wrote: post #72
KronisLV wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that overall, for public transport, HERE maps is a feasible alternative in most cases, here's a quick example of how a route might look (though there is a mobile app available as well, IMO the performance is much better than Google Maps'): https://wego.here.com/directions/publicTransport/Riga-Intern... Now, of course, Google probably still has more real time data in this regard, especially since it's possi…

HERE WeGo is a great alternative to Google Maps. It works on Android, iOS, and web. Business data is pulled from TripAdvisor. (The app store ratings for HERE WeGo are a bit low because they recently rewrote the app and the first few versions were unstable. The rewrite added lane guidance, which is a useful feature to have for driving directions.) - HERE WeGo (web): https://wego.here.com - HERE WeGo (Android): https:/…

Organic Maps has been my go to maps since it came out. Fantastic navigation features, and felt no different than using Google Maps. The best part? It doesn't any internet connection to work!

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#113

Post by BurningPenguin »

dspillett wrote: post #77
BurningPenguin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be wrong since i'm not american, but it seems like unions are generally a controversial topic in the US.

Unions are relatively controversial everywhere. In the UK and other parts of Europe, for instance, they also divide opinion, either generally or in specific cases where they are accused of over-reach. In the US I get the impression they are more controversial, perhaps because they are less common (so it is easier for those against to make mountains out of molehills because the public in general are less aware where t…

In Germany it's not as bad as in the US. It's more of a mixed bag. Some people are pro, some are con and some don't care. But there is not that amount of pure hatred against unions. There are some unions that retrieve heavy criticism, because of their behaviour in negotiations or public announcements. But we don't want to get rid of all of them.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#114

Post by AnthonyMouse »

danuker wrote: post #25
BurningPenguin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be wrong since i'm not american, but it seems like unions are generally a controversial topic in the US.

Not all people realize the bargaining power of a huge corporation is much different than that of an individual. If a company of 100 people fires a worker, they lose 1% of productivity. If a worker loses their job, they lose 100% of income. This fundamental asymmetry makes me support unions. On top of that, the corporation can afford paying to shift people's opinions.

I don't really get this argument. You lose 100% of income, assuming this is your only job, but only until you get another one, which could be right away, and in the meantime if they terminate you without cause you get unemployment for long enough that most people will be able to find another job.

Meanwhile this criticism is inversely correlated with the utility of a union. If you're in a market where the company is hiring unskilled fungible peons, and you try to unionize, they can just let the union walk out and hire a bunch of different unskilled fungible peons. So it doesn't work for e.g. Amazon warehouse workers.

For a strike to mean anything, the company has to have high turnover costs in replacing employees or a scarcity of skilled labor. But then that's true of the individual employees as well. So then it isn't needed for e.g. programmers to be able to negotiate beneficial working conditions, and you're paying the overhead for what you could get without it.

What does that leave for where the union is doing something good?

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#115

Post by Nextgrid »

commoner wrote: post #110
Nextgrid wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have captured traffic from the iOS app a couple years ago or so and saw frequent contacts to Facebook domains; this is indeed due to the Facebook SDK which contacts FB regardless of whether you use Facebook features or not (I definitely did not). It may have changed since then and if so that's great!

I had missed some information on my network monitoring app (RethinkDNS[1]) and updated my last comment before seeing your reply! You're right about the connections to a Facebook server, though I'm only seeing the connections when the app is cold-started on Android. I haven't had the chance to test on iOS. The Facebook Android[2] and iOS[3] SDKs are source-available. From a privacy perspective, when someone compares G…

> the question is whether using Google or HERE (plus the Facebook SDK) would be more of a privacy violation

Well unless you absolutely never use Google (which is hard), you're better off using Maps (as they track you anyway from occasional usage), where as it's easier to never use Facebook (in fact all Facebook IPs are outright blocked on my networks) so it's better to not provide any data to them at all.

So for me if I had to choose I'd prefer Google (who probably track me anyways during occasional usage of their services) over Facebook which aren't supposed to track me at all since I never use their services (and since I avoid all apps with FB malware in them, I don't think they can track me).

In my case I use Apple Maps which works well enough for me. I wish OSM-based alternatives were as good when it comes to POI searching but in London I found that OSM is even worse than Apple.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#116

Post by native_samples »

marcellus23 wrote: post #16
jiggawatts wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Apple Maps got released and everbody made fun of how bad it was, it was revealed that Google Maps had something like 6000 people working on it for years and years, funded through Alphabet corporation's search monopoly and ad revenue. Not the maps ad revenue, that's a pittance. The search revenue. And note that a company that was the world's biggest (or nearly so) at the time failed to catch up, and has still fai…

Do you have sources on those employee numbers? Also, even if Apple had an equal number of employees and worked as fast as Google, of course they wouldn’t be able to catch up. Google has a head start. But it’s not like Apple isn’t leagues ahead of where Google was in 2011 by now.

I worked on Maps for a while. The 6000 number must surely include the contractor army that was authoring the maps themselves. Google is a lot bigger than it once was, but when I worked on it there were perhaps "only" 300-500 engineers working on the project. Still an enormous effort. However there were thousands more people in India working around the clock tracing satellite photos and using street view imagery to create in-house maps. So I can believe the raw number.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#117

Post by thinkingemote »

Nextgrid wrote: post #115
commoner wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had missed some information on my network monitoring app (RethinkDNS[1]) and updated my last comment before seeing your reply! You're right about the connections to a Facebook server, though I'm only seeing the connections when the app is cold-started on Android. I haven't had the chance to test on iOS. The Facebook Android[2] and iOS[3] SDKs are source-available. From a privacy perspective, when someone compares G…

> the question is whether using Google or HERE (plus the Facebook SDK) would be more of a privacy violation Well unless you absolutely never use Google (which is hard), you're better off using Maps (as they track you anyway from occasional usage), where as it's easier to never use Facebook (in fact all Facebook IPs are outright blocked on my networks) so it's better to not provide any data to them at all. So for me i…

Apple uses (and contributes back to) OSM in many places.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#118

Post by BurningPenguin »

nonameiguess wrote: post #81
BurningPenguin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be wrong since i'm not american, but it seems like unions are generally a controversial topic in the US.

At least three reasons: 1) A whole lot of propaganda effort has gone into spreading anti-union sentiment for at least over a century, from the very deep pockets of the richest private actors in the world, like Amazon. Since they managed to capture half the politicians, it has become a culture war issue to the point that being pro and anti union is more a marker of personal identity than a reasoned position. 2) Histor…

Huh, i guess i learned some new things today. I heard about allegations of them being criminal. Usually i'd file such claims under "conspiracy crap", because until now nobody bothered to explain why.

Also i didn't know that being in a union can be mandatory. Here in Germany it's up to you if you want to be part of it or not. With it comes plenty of advantages, like legal protection insurance for work related legal issues. You can go to a consultant that will look up your case and - if necessary - give it to a lawyer. They even offer help to people who want to become self-employed. All for a quite low monthly fee.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#119

Post by AnthonyMouse »

nonameiguess wrote: post #81
BurningPenguin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be wrong since i'm not american, but it seems like unions are generally a controversial topic in the US.

At least three reasons: 1) A whole lot of propaganda effort has gone into spreading anti-union sentiment for at least over a century, from the very deep pockets of the richest private actors in the world, like Amazon. Since they managed to capture half the politicians, it has become a culture war issue to the point that being pro and anti union is more a marker of personal identity than a reasoned position. 2) Histor…

> On the other hand, my dad was a plumber and his union seemed to bring him real benefit.

Unions for licensed professionals are more lobbying organizations than labor representation. Their goal (which they often achieve) is, effectively, regulatory capture to create a barrier to entry into that labor market and drive up scarcity to increase prices.

It's a similar dynamic to public sector unions -- they're really negotiating with the government, and if the union is large enough then they're a significant voting constituency, so it's like a large shareholder in a publicly traded company using their influence over the organization to have the organization engage in self-dealing with the shareholder's other business.

Re: Google sends anti-regulation propaganda to small businesses using Google Maps

#120

Post by commoner »

Nextgrid wrote: post #115
commoner wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had missed some information on my network monitoring app (RethinkDNS[1]) and updated my last comment before seeing your reply! You're right about the connections to a Facebook server, though I'm only seeing the connections when the app is cold-started on Android. I haven't had the chance to test on iOS. The Facebook Android[2] and iOS[3] SDKs are source-available. From a privacy perspective, when someone compares G…

> the question is whether using Google or HERE (plus the Facebook SDK) would be more of a privacy violation Well unless you absolutely never use Google (which is hard), you're better off using Maps (as they track you anyway from occasional usage), where as it's easier to never use Facebook (in fact all Facebook IPs are outright blocked on my networks) so it's better to not provide any data to them at all. So for me i…

Apple incorporates OSM data into its maps for some regions, and Apple is also the most prolific corporate data contributor to OSM,* so I agree that Apple Maps is a great alternative to Google Maps. Unfortunately, it's not available on Android or as a web app.

* https://joemorrison.medium.com/openstreetmap-is-having-a-mom...

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