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Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

brown.edu

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Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#111

Post by evanb »

melvinmt wrote: post #36
tombert wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You definitely aren’t too old By "old" I didn't mean actual biological age exactly. I guess the more appropriate word would be something more like "settled". As it stands, I have a mortgage and whatnot to take care of, it's not really realistic for me to quit my job and focus full-time on a PhD for the next 5-6 years. > but I would never take on a PhD student that wants to continue working elsewhere That seems to b…

Yes, part-time PhD's are pretty common in Europe. They also commonly take 3-4 years instead of 6...

… if you already have a master’s degree, which takes 2 years. In the US many 5-6 year PhD programs do not require—and in fact include—a master’s degree.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#112

Post by 8589934591 »

I'm in my late 20s and my wife works on her own startup (non tech tangible product). I wonder if there are others who have their spouses working and how the marriage factored into their decision to pursue a CS PhD. I'm not from USA.

My primary concerns are her startup tanking, me being unavailable for her mental health and of course a steady income.

I sometimes wonder maybe I should pursue a CS PhD after settling down financially by late 40s.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#113

Post by endymi0n »

shoyer wrote: post #95
wanderingmind wrote: post #78

For all the fantasy here, let me remind you doing a PhD at an early age is one of the worst things you can do to your financial security (CS Ph.D being a major exception). It does not teach any employable skills, leads to a very high level of depression/anxiety compared to regular jobs and creates a huge opportunity cost where you miss out saving money early that has true compounding capability. The 2019 Nature surve…

A PhD is certainly not for everyone (or even most), but it's rather unfair to say that it does not teach any employable skills. Even PhDs who go on to work in completely unrelated fields learn how to make progress on poorly defined problems and to advance the frontier of human knowledge. And a PhD is also of course a hard prerequisite for career in academia or research. As for that survey of PhD students, I suspect y…

Depends on your definition of „better“. Since decisions are always emotionally made and rationalized after the fact, this approach will fall victim to significant amounts of survivorship and post-purchase bias.

Life doesn’t have an A/B Test and time tends to make things golden in retrospect — so it‘s hard to compare with what you could have done instead with your only truly non-renewable resource.

I would at least not recommend making a PhD if you don‘t love academia itself.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#114

Post by lokimedes »

wanderingmind wrote: post #78

For all the fantasy here, let me remind you doing a PhD at an early age is one of the worst things you can do to your financial security (CS Ph.D being a major exception). It does not teach any employable skills, leads to a very high level of depression/anxiety compared to regular jobs and creates a huge opportunity cost where you miss out saving money early that has true compounding capability. The 2019 Nature surve…

I realize we’re mostly US-centric here on HN, but I have greatly benefited from my Physics Ph.D. Obtained in Denmark, while being paid $55000 a year throughout the study (standard rate for PhD students in DK). In Denmark most people will hold a state sponsored Masters degree, so it has served me well in the private industry as a differentiator. Combined with an MBA (yes, I hear the snuffing sounds guys) it has been the perfect package for senior engineering management.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#115

Post by bitwize »

sipior wrote: post #96
tombert wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which I find weird; are European/British PhDs generally considered less valuable than American? I didn’t think they were but there’s a lot I don’t know about this.

Generally speaking, American PhD programs expect that you'll be spending at least a year (and generally two) on graduate-level courses before engaging in full-time research. European-style undergraduate degrees are much more focussed, with far fewer "gen-ed" requirements, and you're expected to pick up any extra background material en passant, alongside your thesis work. It's a philosophical difference that doesn't m…

The difference comes from the fact that smart Europeans graduate secondary school with the equivalent of an American university grad's education. U.S. universities must therefore offer more coursework in order to bring their postgrads up to snuff with what's expected of a fresh university grad in the rest of the developed world.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#116

Post by bitwize »

wanderingmind wrote: post #78

For all the fantasy here, let me remind you doing a PhD at an early age is one of the worst things you can do to your financial security (CS Ph.D being a major exception). It does not teach any employable skills, leads to a very high level of depression/anxiety compared to regular jobs and creates a huge opportunity cost where you miss out saving money early that has true compounding capability. The 2019 Nature surve…

A Ph.D. is pretty much a license to do science in many fields, such as biochemistry. Unlike CS, you just don't get to do the cutting edge work without one -- you will remain forever a lab tech unless and until you get your doctorate.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#117

Post by ekianjo »

wanderingmind wrote: post #78

For all the fantasy here, let me remind you doing a PhD at an early age is one of the worst things you can do to your financial security (CS Ph.D being a major exception). It does not teach any employable skills, leads to a very high level of depression/anxiety compared to regular jobs and creates a huge opportunity cost where you miss out saving money early that has true compounding capability. The 2019 Nature surve…

> For all the fantasy here, let me remind you doing a PhD at an early age

A PhD is mainly if you have an interest (or could have an interest) in an Academic career.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#118

Post by ketzo »

shoyer wrote: post #95
wanderingmind wrote: post #78

For all the fantasy here, let me remind you doing a PhD at an early age is one of the worst things you can do to your financial security (CS Ph.D being a major exception). It does not teach any employable skills, leads to a very high level of depression/anxiety compared to regular jobs and creates a huge opportunity cost where you miss out saving money early that has true compounding capability. The 2019 Nature surve…

A PhD is certainly not for everyone (or even most), but it's rather unfair to say that it does not teach any employable skills. Even PhDs who go on to work in completely unrelated fields learn how to make progress on poorly defined problems and to advance the frontier of human knowledge. And a PhD is also of course a hard prerequisite for career in academia or research. As for that survey of PhD students, I suspect y…

I don’t know. It seems quite different than parenthood.

Are these people complaining about something that’s hard-but-worth-it? Or are they regretful participants in a genuinely broken system? Many signs seem to point to the latter.

Academia has a very small chance of, specifically, anything more than an extremely mediocre income. This, despite the fact that (generally speaking) some who would enter into, let alone complete, a Ph.D program would already tend towards the right said of the bell curve in that regard.

These programs often make many, if not most, people who join them miserable for years at the cost of a medium-to-large cut in lifetime earnings, all for a quickly shrinking chance at stability.

I know money isn’t everything in this life; truly, I do. I know that the pursuit of academic knowledge is noble, and in some ways a separate and valid good in its own right. It’s still a fucked-up system with serious and numerous flaws.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#119

Post by localhost »

wanderingmind wrote: post #78

For all the fantasy here, let me remind you doing a PhD at an early age is one of the worst things you can do to your financial security (CS Ph.D being a major exception). It does not teach any employable skills, leads to a very high level of depression/anxiety compared to regular jobs and creates a huge opportunity cost where you miss out saving money early that has true compounding capability. The 2019 Nature surve…

I was fortunate enough to pivot from Chemistry PhD (which I completed) to a career at Microsoft that has provided me with more than enough financial security to fund an adventure like this when I do decide to retire. While I may not be typical, I do use skills (though not specific knowledge) from my PhD all the time in my day job - mostly around communications both written and oral. The act of writing my thesis and papers really taught me the value of being able to communicate technical information clearly to a technical audience.

I think that the structure of pursuing research would be a great way to avoid losing a "sense of purpose" that I fear might await me when I do decide to retire. The tricky part of this is finding the right advisor and the right project in the right field.

Re: Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

#120

Post by nitrogen »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #84
soheil wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's my point, can someone in that group instead of devoting more time than the average to their academic work take that extra time and devote it to their job?

So if you had the capability to be one of the greatest PhD students in the world your strategy would be "do a bunch of stuff average instead"? How would you achieve such a high level of performance in the first place? Being a good grad student is as much learned and practiced as any other skill.

Being quite good at two things can sometimes be much more advantageous than being top notch at just one thing.
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