An unexpected victory: container stacking at the port of Los Angeles • Hacker News Board

Re: An unexpected victory: container stacking at the port of Los Angeles

#111

Post by groby_b » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 4:49 PM UTC

aeternum wrote: post #29

parsimo2010 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were supposedly trucks that couldn’t be loaded because they had no place to get rid of the empty container they currently had. So truck loading rate was low, not because of the speed of the workers and cranes, but because of the availability of the trucks. So this is supposed to allow the truck loading rate to go up by making it easier for trucks to become available. I don’t know if that will happen, but this i…

Increasing a buffer size can also make it look like the problem is solved temporarily when you really have a rate issue. It seems that filled containers are coming in at a faster rate than empty containers are going out. We've increased the buffer for empty containers at the dock but did we address the outgoing rate problem? Why wouldn't the buffer just fill again? I wonder if we've reached a point where manufacturin…

The buffer would (maybe) not fill again, because the overflow containers were stored on chassis. The problem was that we needed buffer space and converted transport to buffer space - and then we didn't have enough transport, so we needed more buffer space. Cue ominous feedback loop music.

This should free up transportation space, so we can unload more ships, so we can load containers on them and ship them back. Is it the only problem in the supply chain? Probably not. Will it make things better? Definitely in the short term, and probably in the long term.

At the very least it buys a respite to think about further fixes.

Re: An unexpected victory: container stacking at the port of Los Angeles

#112

Post by s1artibartfast » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 4:50 PM UTC

revel wrote: post #71

This article is ridiculous. "It's so easy but nobody expected it to happen!" Most of freight is run off spreadsheets and over the phone or by email. Flexport is built around digitization and optimization. Half of the appeal of their product is that it gives customers improved visibility! It's therefore not surprising that a local city mayor didn't realize he had the power to unclog the US traffic jam. Referring to hi…

Has a causal relationship between the Flexport analysis and Garcia's order been established?

Re: An unexpected victory: container stacking at the port of Los Angeles

#113

Post by foolinaround » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 4:50 PM UTC

jaycroft wrote: post #87

bombcar wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s time to load. An empty ship may be halfway back to China to get a new (overpriced) load before a similar ship is loaded with empties.

Does the port charge container owners for storing empties? Ramp up the storage fee, and voila... empty containers go back on empty boats that would otherwise make the return trip with no load. Container owners will find that shipping them back with a reasonable premium to keep ships around long enough to pick up the empties eventually costs less than storing them at the port. Aside, I'd love to have an empty containe…

you can find containers for $400 online, maybe even free, if you have a truck to pick up..

Re: An unexpected victory: container stacking at the port of Los Angeles

#114

Post by UncleOxidant » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

lftl wrote: post #5

I suppose it's not fair, but I was disappointed after reading the title, hoping that the article would be an assessment on whether changing the container stacking rule has made a difference yet. There seems to be a fair amount of skepticism that the stacking rule was having a large negative impact, so I was excited to see an assessment of how/if it's made any difference.

It (helped) to solve one of the problems. Others remain, but it's a good first step.

Re: An unexpected victory: container stacking at the port of Los Angeles

#115

Post by inetknght » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

> * 14. Everyone in the port, or at least a lot of them, knew this was happening.*

> 15. None of those people managed to do anything about the rule, or even get word out about the rule. No reporters wrote up news reports. No one was calling for a fix. The supply chain problems kept getting worse and mostly everyone agreed not to talk about it much and hope it would go away.

It's been my experience that nearly all of the times it's the low-, and maybe mid-, -level workers who see problems. And it's usually the upper end of the business or bureaucracy who end up ignoring the problem.

And then it's also been my experience that after the problem gets ignored for a while, the people who see the problem also don't report later problems because they know it won't be fixed and they're not empowered to fix it themselves.

This is a widespread problem in my eyes.

Re: An unexpected victory: container stacking at the port of Los Angeles

#116

Post by kaesar14 » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

erlapso wrote: post #102

saas_sam wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flexport's technology had nothing to do with this, though. The CEO literally took a boat ride around the bay and looked at what was happening + talked to some people. He did the thing everyone assumes public officials do, but who clearly are not doing.

But the CEO has a different level of understanding of logistics compared to the major. They may be looking at the same port, but they see different things. The CEO saw bottlenecks like Neo sees the Matrix

Why doesn't the mayor of a city with one of America's most important ports call in experts like this the second trouble started? It was this easy and he never bothered to ask the experts?

Re: An unexpected victory: container stacking at the port of Los Angeles

#117

Post by kwertyoowiyop » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

slobiwan wrote: post #31

bhy wrote: post #17

From what I heard, the real issue is the ships are not bringing these containers back, because: 1. there's not so much good for US to export (volume-wise); 2. shipping price is so high that to save time, ships do not wait to load empty containers. As long as US has a net import of containers, whatever buffer created will be filled up soon.

That's the popular consensus here in LA, it's cheaper to discard the containers than to ship them back empty (and nobody at the receiving end wants enough of what we have to make it worth sending them back full). However I drive through the port area frequently and always see containers stacked well above the 2-high limit. I suppose that means they are not empty containers? There definitely has to be some alternate u…

I read recently that there’s such a great demand for containers in Asia right now that empty containers which used to be sent to our farms to fill with agricultural products to sell in Asia are instead being sent back empty. Maybe the consensus is outdated?

Re: An unexpected victory: container stacking at the port of Los Angeles

#118

Post by gorbachev » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

more_corn wrote: post #100

revel wrote: post #71

This article is ridiculous. "It's so easy but nobody expected it to happen!" Most of freight is run off spreadsheets and over the phone or by email. Flexport is built around digitization and optimization. Half of the appeal of their product is that it gives customers improved visibility! It's therefore not surprising that a local city mayor didn't realize he had the power to unclog the US traffic jam. Referring to hi…

It is quite reasonable to make fun of people who required a 2 container limit for aesthetic reasons which accidentally caused a major kink in the global supply chain. It was also inarguably effective to publicly shame them into reversing their decision.

Do you think the current mayor had anything to do with enacting the regulation to limit the stacking height?

Re: An unexpected victory: container stacking at the port of Los Angeles

#119

Post by zz865 » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

It seems weird that there is no incentive to put empty containers on an empty boat to China, esp when there is a shortage of containers in China. Maybe the port should charge higher rent for storing empty containers? There is something missing in the story.

Re: An unexpected victory: container stacking at the port of Los Angeles

#120

Post by jlkuester7 » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #112

revel wrote: post #71

This article is ridiculous. "It's so easy but nobody expected it to happen!" Most of freight is run off spreadsheets and over the phone or by email. Flexport is built around digitization and optimization. Half of the appeal of their product is that it gives customers improved visibility! It's therefore not surprising that a local city mayor didn't realize he had the power to unclog the US traffic jam. Referring to hi…

Has a causal relationship between the Flexport analysis and Garcia's order been established?

I mean sure without confirmation from Garcia there is no "proof" that the Flexport tweets influenced his decision. But it seems like a reasonable conclusion given that both the problem and Garcia's power to implement the fix existed together for a long time, but he only acted (8hrs) after the Flexport tweets when viral....