Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

kxan.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 691 posts

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#111

Post by georgewsinger »

resters wrote: post #32
georgewsinger wrote: post #14

Warning: This post is written from a libertarian/center-right viewpoint. While this move is great, I'm skeptical of the idea that moving to Austin is a political panacea for moderate/center-right/libertarian governance. - The same percentage of people who voted for hard leftist candidates in SF also voted for hard leftist candidates in Austin. Don't believe me? Check it out for yourself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki…

It's less about ideology than about the impact of entrenched power. For all the leftist rhetoric in SF, interest groups like property owner, landlords, etc., have political power sufficient to preserve the status quo. I think the geographical constraints of SF (water all around) amplify the power of the above groups at the expense of others. Austin may have more space to gradually expand and spread out in a way that…

That's true. But leftists are entrenched in Austin as well at the city level. I suppose, at the state level, once the state flips blue, the "default"/status-quo position will still be more low-tax/low-regulation, and that's an advantage for Texas (again speaking from a libertarian view point; I understand you won't agree if you share a different politics).

It still seems to me that Austin will converge to SF, given enough time, given that the people in both cities believe the same things, and in only a few years Texas will be blue.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#112

Post by panopticon »

pdq wrote: post #57

This is mostly symbolic so far as Tesla doesn’t even have the factory ready. Elon has options to exercise in Q4 before they expire, which will realize a substantial capital gain. By moving both personally and his business to Texas, he is likely avoiding California state income tax and capital gains, since Texas has neither. I’d say that’s bad faith, given how much California has subsidized his companies.

I think California uses an "allocation ratio" to determine how much he will owe when he exercises those options [1], so he's not getting away tax-free.

1: https://www.ftb.ca.gov/forms/misc/1004.html

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#113

Post by slownews45 »

scoofy wrote: post #103
twalla wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Austin continues to become less and less affordable for people who aren't bringing in existing home equity from other high cost of living areas. My understanding is the bulk of offers for homes in the Austin area are from Texans and existing Austinites but the bulk of winning offers are from out of state.

This is incorrect, the property tax system in Texas should allow market forces to guide housing development. I grew up in Austin, the city is literally 3x the size when i was in high school, but unlike they Bay Area, they are building a ton of housing, and have since the 90s, because it's not profitable to just squat on undeveloped valuable property because of the high property taxes. You look at the skyline from whe…

This is a major difference. In Bay Area, your prop taxes are based on time of purchase. That is game changing. Much better even to rent it then to sell it, if you are paying taxes on a cost from 20 years ago you are golden. Development is hard in the bay area too.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#114

Post by nkohari »

_jal wrote: post #50
danhak wrote: post #34

California's tax regime is really backward. I suspect Tesla's departure is just the tip of the iceberg and that the repeal of the SALT deduction in 2017 really hastened this trend. High earners pay an effective tax rate of > 50%. They are partially picking up the slack from Prop 13, which artificially distorts the housing market by allowing longtime homeowners to pay property taxes based on decades-old assessed value…

> middling infrastructure Compared to what?

There were literally rolling blackouts in CA last summer and the state came dangerously close again this summer.

Edit: Not sure why everyone is assuming I'm saying Texas is somehow better. I'm well aware of the power grid problems there as well. The question was "in comparison to what" and setting aside CA and TX, at last count there are 48 whole other states in the nation.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#115

Post by nradov »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #9

I know this is charged but it's genuine question due to my ignorance - why are companies having or moving HQs to Texas? It feels that : 1. It's way out of temperate climate that one would live in when given full choice and all things equal (understanding they never are of course - I live in great white North :) 2. Politics are highly conservative and frequently invasive. now clearly half of Americans like it that way…

California politics are equally or more invasive, just in different directions. Pick your poison.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#116

Post by [deleted] »

brightball wrote: post #43
danhak wrote: post #34

California's tax regime is really backward. I suspect Tesla's departure is just the tip of the iceberg and that the repeal of the SALT deduction in 2017 really hastened this trend. High earners pay an effective tax rate of > 50%. They are partially picking up the slack from Prop 13, which artificially distorts the housing market by allowing longtime homeowners to pay property taxes based on decades-old assessed value…

I’ve long suspected that the Democratic obsession with federal policy is to try to reduce the appeal of other states where companies may want to move. It’s often seemed like people in California would prefer that a manufacturing operations operate in Asia and come through their ports rather than operate in the middle/south US.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#117

Post by [deleted] »

danhak wrote: post #34

California's tax regime is really backward. I suspect Tesla's departure is just the tip of the iceberg and that the repeal of the SALT deduction in 2017 really hastened this trend. High earners pay an effective tax rate of > 50%. They are partially picking up the slack from Prop 13, which artificially distorts the housing market by allowing longtime homeowners to pay property taxes based on decades-old assessed value…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#118

Post by gopalv »

nine_k wrote: post #84
gautamcgoel wrote: post #48

What I'm really curious about is what happens to Austin (and to a lesser extent, Atlanta, Raleigh, Denver, SLC etc). Does Austin become the next Bay Area/next Seattle? Crazy high housing prices, and high homelessness/crime? If so, how long does that take, and what happens to native Austinites? If not, what prevents history from repeating itself?

This being Texas, I suppose Austin has fewer restrictions on new development, so housing prices may be less crazy. To say nothing of taxes, which leave more of your wages to pay the rent.

> which leave more of your wages to pay the rent.

Austin has crazy property taxes in comparison to CA, which is where they get you.

2.5% tax rate evaluated for the property prices annually, so retiring on a fixed income in Austin is a tiny bit harder than in CA (that's the real goal of Prop 13).

Income taxes are easier to think about, because it goes to zero when your income drops, but property taxes based on the unrealized value of the house is completely out of your control.

The homestead exemption does apply, but Prop 13 is by far the superior option for an owner, though what Austin does is better for the government's fiscal policy.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#119

Post by ekianjo »

guardiangod wrote: post #74
danhak wrote: post #34

California's tax regime is really backward. I suspect Tesla's departure is just the tip of the iceberg and that the repeal of the SALT deduction in 2017 really hastened this trend. High earners pay an effective tax rate of > 50%. They are partially picking up the slack from Prop 13, which artificially distorts the housing market by allowing longtime homeowners to pay property taxes based on decades-old assessed value…

>High earners pay an effective tax rate of > 50%. Musk has not paid any tax because he hasn't cashed out any of his stock options yet. Some of his options will expire next year so he will pay tax then, but I am sure California will get the lion share of the tax revenue (as Musk lived in California up to 2021.)

i did not know there was only one high income employee at Tesla.

Re: Tesla’s headquarters will move to Austin

#120

Post by sjg007 »

prepend wrote: post #81
guardiangod wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>High earners pay an effective tax rate of > 50%. Musk has not paid any tax because he hasn't cashed out any of his stock options yet. Some of his options will expire next year so he will pay tax then, but I am sure California will get the lion share of the tax revenue (as Musk lived in California up to 2021.)

Tesla employees lots of people who pay income tax. Capital gains is taxed on the residence at time of sale, not time of purchase. So if Musk sells when he’s not a resident of CA, he won’t pay CA taxes.

He will pay gains on where the stock vested. So CA in this case.
Post reply on HN