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Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

economist.com

111–120 of 609 posts

Re: Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

#111
post #3

No. That’s what people like us and all the main stream media hope for. But: most people I know don’t have the slightest clue that Insta and WhatsApp belong to the FB group. And even worse: most of them don’t give a shit about the reputation of FB. They just want to send messages and share pictures through those apps.

Can’t agree more and that is the main problem - user’s apathy for their own privacy.

Re: Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

#112
post #3

No. That’s what people like us and all the main stream media hope for. But: most people I know don’t have the slightest clue that Insta and WhatsApp belong to the FB group. And even worse: most of them don’t give a shit about the reputation of FB. They just want to send messages and share pictures through those apps.

> most of them don’t give a shit about the reputation of FB This is close to a straw man argument. Nobody claims users will abandon Facebook. The article posits, instead, strengthening headwinds. Headwinds in hiring (there is already a double-digit premium Facebook must pay for talent). From recurring whistleblowing, and its impact on morale and productivity. Headwinds in projects and partnerships, like Libre/Diem be…

It's been so long since a company reached Facebook's heights and fell that a whole generation doesn't know what it looks like. AOL was the Facebook of its time: a joke to system admins, a default ban on small game servers and IRC channels. Meanwhile, most people had no idea anyone had a problem with AOL. Like with Facebook, there were people reporting on its follies like Observers.net[0], but it mostly went unremarked on or unnoticed by most people. Until it changed. AOL is around, as Facebook likely will be, but it'll see a similar fall, and no one will see it coming.

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20110124001004/http://www.nytime...

Note how similar this is to the reports on what Facebook moderators deal with.

Re: Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

#113
If someone knew how to make not-shitty facebook, they'ed very quickly make tens of billions of dollars, achieve fame in the public sphere, respect in the technical sphere, and influence in the political sphere. Facebook would go the way of myspace and we would all rejoice.

The fact that, despite the immense incentive and numerous attempts, no one has ever succeeded at making not-shitty facebook strongly suggests it is an incredibly difficult thing to do. All the criticism in the world means nothing if no one can do better.

Re: Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

#114

This whole circus is about as contrived as it gets, complete with the "think of the children" gimmick. The timing, the theatrics, the manufactured celebrity of a middle manager at Facebook who is doing the "right" kind of whistleblowing that the establishment likes. Facebook's predatory business model isn't unique or new. This is about raw power to censor.

You’re right, and that’s why the story is boring - nothing is going to happen.

Even if a majority could agree on a more heavy-handed approach to the tech giants (which it won’t), there’s been 0 discussion of the First Amendment implications of any proposed “solution.” For anyone who’s unsure or confused, the chances of the Roberts’ Court upholding content restrictions are zip. There will NEVER be a law that penalizes FB for promoting LEGAL SPEECH.

Re: Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

#115

I don't really know much about US politics, but could this recent attack on Facebook be a political move and a power grab? Attack FB so they block certain groups / certain topics and promote what the regulators want? I listened to the whistle-blower's testimony and I didn't hear any reasonable solutions (in my opinion at least; I am a software developer myself). Also, it seems there might be some regulations imposed.…

Stratechery makes a pretty solid argument that the calls for regulating "fake news" in general and Facebook in particular is a Democratic reaction to getting outfoxed by Trump's use of social media in 2016: https://stratechery.com/2021/facebook-political-problems/

Do you think the Democratic Party will ever admit that they lost in 2016 not because of "misinformation" or "fake news" or Russian interference or any of the other nefarious conspiracy theories they've promulgated, but because they put forward a terrible, unlikable candidate whom no-one was enthusiastic about and who offered nothing but sanctimony and a continuation of the failing status quo? Maybe it's not Facebook's fault?

Re: Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

#116
post #20

Personally I dont see persistent public outrage that can effectively diminish Facebook. The "threat" at the moment is the congress passing bill to somewhat stymie Facebook.

Facebook has the money to hire lobbyists. Any bill passed through Congress with Facebook as its target will (amazingly, surprisingly) serve mostly to entrench and enrich it. Whatever limitations are included will be miraculously avoided by Facebook and will completely destroy any nascent competitors. No I don't know how they'll do it. Lobbyists must be craftier than the average citizen, because although their actions…

One way the lobbyists avoid hammering Facebook is to argue that weakening Facebook means strengthening "Chinese" competitors, however true it is.

I'm thinking that Chinese tech like TikTok/Bytedance is more used to policing content compared to their American counterpart. My observation is that TikTok is more prone to banning users rather than say FB.

Re: Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

#117
post #3

No. That’s what people like us and all the main stream media hope for. But: most people I know don’t have the slightest clue that Insta and WhatsApp belong to the FB group. And even worse: most of them don’t give a shit about the reputation of FB. They just want to send messages and share pictures through those apps.

That was my reaction too, scoffing as I imagined the headline "Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation is nearing a reputational point of no return" after the News of the World scandal in 2011 (or any of countless others). But the sentence that matters is this one: "Facebook risks losing its young, liberal staff". If Facebook can't attract/keep the best staff (especially hackers/devs/engineers), it can't stay at the top. E…

I don't think Facebook's "... young, liberal staff" is going anywhere. They have experienced the power that comes with successfully shifting a global organization's culture, mission and product. Unfortunately, there are only so many hours in the day, and doing so hasn't given them enough time to actually do their jobs. The people that are left don't possess the tools to create and build anything of moment because that's not what they're good at and frankly, that's not why they were hired.

Facebook losing its young, liberal staff could be the best thing that has happened to the company in a long time, but that's not what's going to happen.

Re: Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

#118
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To go a bit further MSM's ad revenue is being hollowed out by Facebook et al. Why would anyone pay to advertise in Economist when they can advertise to "people interested in economics, earning over 150k, last thought about cigarettes three weeks ago" etc. Similarly, if you were an advertising exec at pfizer, would you choose to pay millions of dollars to advertise your meds to a continuously shrinking audience on som…

>it seems like most of the critiques of social media coming from big / old media are just symptoms of having their revenue bled away I feel that so many people blindly hate Facebook that they overlook this point. The loudest critics of social media are the old vanguards of news who are upset that the new kid on the block took their ad money.

"Blindly"

Re: Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return

#119
post #93
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glenn Greenwald wrote an article arguing that yes, it is a power grab. https://greenwald.substack.com/p/democrats-and-media-do-not-...

Glenn Greenwood in my opinion is not a neutral party here. In recent times he clearly has chosen sides.

One fundamental precept of rational thought is that arguments speak for themselves. Claims exist independently of their speakers. You can't rebut an argument by suggesting that the person who made the argument has "chosen sides" or has any other characteristic whatsoever. You have to address the content of the argument itself. The human is irrelevant.

Everyone should read Greenwald's article. He makes a good case.

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